At a loss re: sons behaviour and how to proceed

[thewayoftheplatypus]

My son is 5 and has just entered year 1. For 2 days this week he has been on the red traffic light. On the first day he went onto the red traffic light for saying ‘yay’ and cheering when the teacher was explaining the schools new punishment code. (Two red warnings led to behavioural report. Two behavioural report led to suspension) and he cheered at the idea of the day off. The teacher called this ‘blantent disregard for and lack of respect for authority’.

We supported the school, of course, and at home he lost his TV/screen time privaleges for this.

Today he went on the red spot again because whilst playing a war game at lunch time he told one of the boys on ‘his team’ to hit a child on the other team and the boy did. Obviously this was unacceptable, but I think it was important that it was within the context of a game, rather than bullying etc

2 red spots leads to a behavioural report. This means he has to report to the headmaster everyday and spend all of his lunch and break times sitting outside of his office for a week. Whilst I support the school and agree that he should be punished, this seems excessive.

He is only 5 years old and a very active boy. I can’t see how not letting him run around/run his energy off is going to improve his behaviour in the classroom.

But I’m not really sure how to proceed. I don’t want to be ‘that mum’ who runs up to school to defend bad behaviour. But equally I know my son, and I know sitting in all week is only going to make his classroom behaviour worse.

Of course we have talked about classroom behaviour at home a lot, and he is being punished at home for his behaviour too. (No screen time or extra curricular activities for the week that the behavioural report lasts)

Should I tell the school I think the punishment is excessive and unhelpful? Will this achieve anything? Or shall I just suck it up? He is my first born and it’s the first time he’s been in any real trouble, so I’m at a loss really!

Thank you for your responses. It’s interesting to see that they are as mixed as my own response to the situation.

To the poster asking about his out of school activities- he goes to swimming and gymnastics classes, and we have season tickets to a local adventure park where we take him every weekend. He also has a scooter that he takes out a couple of times a week.

To the poster suggesting that I minimise his bad behaviour at home. He’s a chatter box and he likes to tell knock knock jokes. I’m not sure this is something I should be discouraging. It’s a part of his personality!

To the posters asking about his general behaviour at school. His teacher this year and last say that he is a talented and enthusiastic learner. He excels in all areas academically but has struggled to find his place socially.

He has problems with one boy in particular, who often excludes him from games and encourages the other children to do the same. We have been to the school four times in the last year about this issue.

His teacher has suggested that any negative behaviour he displays are generally in the play ground. I am in no way excusing/minimising his behaviour, but I wonder whether this is as a response to his struggling to find his place in this arena.

It is interesting that some posters have suggested we don’t punish him at home- this is interesting and something I hadn’t thought about. I will in the future. For now, I think it would be counter productive to take that away.

Finally, I want to point out that my son is generally a good kid. He cried himself to sleep last night because he was scared about what would happen today and was shaking like a leaf when I walked him into school. Personally, I think this is punishment enough. But i have decided to put on a United front in the school in this instance, in the hope that this very unpleasant week will leave him never wanting to repeat it again, and help him turn a corner.

This means he has to report to the headmaster everyday and spend all of his lunch and break times sitting outside of his office for a week.

That is massively excessive and might well lead to a massive deterioration of his behaviour. He needs time to run around. I also think the schools behaviour policy sounds ridiculous and seems to have nothing in place to actually support children who struggle with behaviour or any positive reinforcement at all.

His behaviour sounds well within the normal limits for a child in Y1. My eldest is in Y2 and a few of his friends have struggled to settle back in and have been in trouble for similar things - it's been handled much more gently than you describe.

Oh and I forgot to end the message by saying thank you for taking the time to comment to everyone- it really helped me to gain some perspective over the past 24 hours where, frankly, I felt pretty clueless about the right thing to do!

struggling to find his place in this arena
But he’s been at school for a full year already?

Encouraging kids to hit other kids and yahooing when sanctions are being explained to the class is awful behaviour that needs to ge firmly sat on, rather than worrying it stems from him feeling insecure at his place in the world.

I think school are being harsh, I agree that some punishment should be given but at the age of 5 suspension isn’t going to make any difference.

It sounds like you ds is using his cheekiness to try and make friends which in turn is getting him into trouble, school should be helping him socially if he is struggling, removing him at break times will not help this. At the age of 5 I think it’s unfair to remove him at break times, making him stay behind and miss 5 minute would be more appropriate (maybe longer if it’s a 2nd or 3rd red light).

@iamagreyhound yes you’re quite right, he has been at school for 1 year and 3 weeks. And for one year and 3 weeks he has struggled to fit in in the playground with his peers and has been excluded by the most dominated/popular boy in the class. Some children don’t fit in with their peer group- this can happen for several years (unfortunately I have first hand experience of this!)

However I was not using this to excuse his behaviour and have said that I am supporting the school sanctions and imposing my own.

That doesn’t mean I can’t seek to understand the motives behind my child’s behaviour

No, of course it doesn’t. Good luck

But he’s been at school for a full year already?

So? That's tiny! In lots of countries he wouldn't have even started school yet. Lots of kids haven't found their feet socially at the beginning of Y1. Developmentally there is a huge divide at this age. Summer born boys often fall developmentally behind girls in the year below.

The "yay" comment was silly but could have been dealt with quickly with a stern word. By escalating so quickly without any attempt to help him they're going to entrench his own idea that he's a badly behaved boy and it will become self fulfilling. In all likelihood he's not a naughty boy he's just immature.

Can I ask why you are imposing your own sanctions at home esp if you think school has been too tough.

You can support the school without further punishment.

When my Ds got into trouble at that age I would frequently tell him it’s a lesson to learn . He is still 5 and is going to get it wrong at times.

This makes me sad, crying himself to sleep and shaking like a leaf . He's 5 FFS! I know they need to learn the rules but Year 1 is often a lot more 'rule based' than reception and it's very early days.

Some people are reacting likes he's a thug who is going to end up in a PRU at 14!!

The "yay" comment was silly but could have been dealt with quickly with a stern word. By escalating so quickly without any attempt to help him they're going to entrench his own idea that he's a badly behaved boy and it will become self fulfilling. In all likelihood he's not a naughty boy he's just immature

Yup - exactly. He sounds as if his impulse control still needs to develop for school - not unusual at his age & excessive punishment for something he can’t fully control
Is unlikely to help.

Poor kid. Definitely excessive to be outside the headmasters office every day.

Crying himself to sleep and shaking like a leaf, he's only 5 poor little bugger, he will end up hating school

I'm not sure this is the right school for your child. Of course there should be consequences for poor behaviour but from what you've described their attitude is OTT in terms of consequences. No child should go shaking into school in the morning out of fear of what will happen to them.

It does seem an extreme reaction from him, has he never been pulled up on his behaviour before?

It does seem an extreme reaction from him, has he never been pulled up on his behaviour before?

My DC have both been pulled up at school for silly behaviour but would be terribly upset but what has happened to OP's DS. Completely OTT and absolutely no appropriate for his age group. I'm not at all surprised by his reaction. I would seriously be reconsidering sending my DC to this school. They sound terrible.

The school are being excessive. DD1 could be a right low-level pain at times last year in year 1... she lost golden time, she missed out on class reward points, and she got sent to the head teacher once for a telling off (not really for any major transgressions but as a short shock about how her behaviour was going to be heading). That was absolutely enough to send her the message about boundaries and get her back onto side, needed reminders several times throughout the course of the year - and she's prone to a deterioration in behaviour when her anxiety is high (lots of lots of negative attention seeking to try to get reassurance). Year 2 and being that bit older and more responsible (their school is an infants so they are now "the big ones") seems to be being the making of her too.

If he's reacted like you say I wonder if there might be an element of what DD1 does get (her teacher's actually the one who nailed it right down - last year's teacher really "got" her) where she was a bit immature anyway, and very naturally anxious and would act up a bit just being a prat to mask that anxiety.

I found, after initially going down the path you're on with being desperate to reinforce school, that the best way to deal with it for her was to just shrug my shoulders, say "oh well you've made the choice that you wanted to behave that way and now you've lost your golden time - if that's the choice you made then that's the choice you made" and completely kill it dead as a point of discussion. Later on we'd get the "because I lost most of my golden time there were too many people in the home corner so I didn't get my turn" type stuff and I could push it a bit more that if you hadn't been such a pillock in the first place you would have been able to be in the home corner from the start and get your turn. Once the corner started to be turned I could make a point of telling her "wow that sounds fun - see isn't it so much easier and happier to just do the right thing" and reinforce it that way - but you need to get to where there's a bit of positivity being reinforced by the school in order to be able to do that.

I'm the last to paint my kid as some kind of hard done by angel (she drives me to distraction at times and can be a right stroppy bugger) - but it does sound ridiculously extreme to be coming down as harshly as they are doing - would have absolutely made the situation worse with DD1.

Sounds like a terrible behavior policy to me, and I have been round the houses on this stuff, DS has ADHD, he couldn't even stay in his chair till he was 7.

DS adores 1:1 attention from an adult and was more than happy to sit in the HT's office rather than share an adult with 30 other kids. The school that sent him to the HT never even made a dent in the behavior problems.

Im a pretty strict (maybe even draconian) parent with a low tolerance for naughty/cheeky/disruptive behaviour in schools but Id be horrified with a school that treated a little boy that way. No child of mine would attend that school.

Missing the opportunity to play outside is not helpful at this stage and for a few years to come. DS was in trouble for the first time in a year this week - by no coincidence this was the day that the children didn't go out for break or lunch due to the high winds. Teacher said he was by no means the only one that would probably have had a better day if he'd got out in the fresh air for a bit. That is at age 9.

Impulse control doesn't develop at the same rate in all children, so while some people think he needs a taught a lesson and he won't do it again, some children really haven't developed that maturity yet. Most kids, if not most people, are doing the best they know how to do.

The school are being very excessive IMO, he’s 5! I think being so strict is counter productive, as someone else said he won’t remember what he’s in trouble for a day or two after the incidents. Is his teacher able to regulate his/her own emotions and remain calm or do you think there’s a battle of wills going on?

I think the issue can be that breaks arent supervised by teachers. So not having the same control of the kids and behaviour expectations. With a lot going on im certain kids get away with a lot. Plus all the running about (on possibly a full and sugary stomach) is enough to make many lose their reason.
Imo the kids (esp SB ones) are just too young for this. For eg this behaviour in a WB child at nearly 5 would have been in nursery where it might have been dealt with differently. Also those dc will have had 5 terms of preschool compared to just 3.
I think the start of each school year is tiring and nerve-wracking, new teacher/classmates/room/work.

Sounds to me that he probably gets a lot more attention at school for this negative behaviour and he likes the attention, you stopping screen time is probably similar attention. School need to reward his positive listening, taking rules seriously and good playtime behaviour. The more he feels rewarded for that the more he'll want to do it.

That's the problem with these card systems I think, if a kid gets bored or feels ignored it's a quick way out of that. Some children will be terrified of getting one but they're usually the kids that will behave either way.

I'm glad my sons school dont have similar.

Not that I think your son's behaviour sounds great, especially the hitting thing, but in the context of everything else and his age its not unusual.

Were the parents consulted on the policy? You have only mentioned the sanctions part. What about how the school encourages and rewards good behaviour? Can he be enthused about good behaviour rewards?

I think you may need to stop being quite so happy about him being a chatterbox if, and only if, it’s not appropriate. Some children are not told not to interrupt, for example. This will annoy teachers if he doesn’t use language appropriately.

If he’s now upset, use this as a time to talk through what he shouldn’t do in future. How do you avoid feeling like this? Make it positive too and look at the rewards for good behaviour. See if he can understand what good behaviour might be.

If the behaviour policy doesn’t mention promoting good behaviour in school, how it will go about it and rewards for good behaviour, it’s useless as a policy. Have you seen it and do you understand it, op?

In effect this sitting outside the HTs office at break/lunch is like an internal exclusion. Whilst I can understand the Red Spot being given by the teacher, does the school's Behaviour Policy state that the behavioural report that follows is internal exclusion as you've described? If yes, would you like your DS to stay at a school that prescribes this? If not, why has the school instigated it?

[For comparison: In the school I work in, hitting would be an automatic red spot, but shouting out "yay" would be a warning and the following "cheering" would be a yellow spot. These would result a loss of some playtime; 5mins for yellow and 10mins for red. If two reds in a week, then parents are called in to discuss behaviour.]