At a loss re: sons behaviour and how to proceed

[thewayoftheplatypus]

My son is 5 and has just entered year 1. For 2 days this week he has been on the red traffic light. On the first day he went onto the red traffic light for saying ‘yay’ and cheering when the teacher was explaining the schools new punishment code. (Two red warnings led to behavioural report. Two behavioural report led to suspension) and he cheered at the idea of the day off. The teacher called this ‘blantent disregard for and lack of respect for authority’.

We supported the school, of course, and at home he lost his TV/screen time privaleges for this.

Today he went on the red spot again because whilst playing a war game at lunch time he told one of the boys on ‘his team’ to hit a child on the other team and the boy did. Obviously this was unacceptable, but I think it was important that it was within the context of a game, rather than bullying etc

2 red spots leads to a behavioural report. This means he has to report to the headmaster everyday and spend all of his lunch and break times sitting outside of his office for a week. Whilst I support the school and agree that he should be punished, this seems excessive.

He is only 5 years old and a very active boy. I can’t see how not letting him run around/run his energy off is going to improve his behaviour in the classroom.

But I’m not really sure how to proceed. I don’t want to be ‘that mum’ who runs up to school to defend bad behaviour. But equally I know my son, and I know sitting in all week is only going to make his classroom behaviour worse.

Of course we have talked about classroom behaviour at home a lot, and he is being punished at home for his behaviour too. (No screen time or extra curricular activities for the week that the behavioural report lasts)

Should I tell the school I think the punishment is excessive and unhelpful? Will this achieve anything? Or shall I just suck it up? He is my first born and it’s the first time he’s been in any real trouble, so I’m at a loss really!

[Pigsears]

Today he went on the red spot again because whilst playing a war game at lunch time he told one of the boys on ‘his team’ to hit a child on the other team and the boy did. Obviously this was unacceptable, but I think it was important that it was within the context of a game, rather than bullying etc

Just a view from 'the other side'- my son is the one that has been hit (continually) in this situation- directed by the same child (or done personally). But as its normally in the context of a 'game'- apparently its not bullying- but rather than the perpetrator has a 'strong' personality and is energetic. Oh and his mother doesn't see it either.

I wish my son was at your school. Its appalling for the child (or children) on the receiving end and disruptive for the whole class too.

[PurpleAndTurquoise]

There may well have been a lot of other behaviour before the actual warnings were issued. I would leave the school to deal with it. It's great you are supporting them.

Some children (OP not saying this is you because you support the school) misbehave knowing it doesn't matter as their parents will come into school to complain about there being any sanctions for the behaviour.

Low level disruption can be really bad for the whole classes learning. Often a child can repeatedly disrupt with small things - calling out, back chat, tapping/banging, wandering around etc enough to really wind up the teacher and the rest of the class. When the actual warning or behaviour card comes it might not look like much as an incident in itself but it might be the tip of the iceberg of disruptive or mean behaviour.

[MymbleClement]

I second what GeorgeTheHippo says OP. I have a very energetic DS. When he was your son's age he was in trouble a lot (our school has a similar 'traffic light' system and he seemed to be always on red/in the Head's office). The thing that really settled him down was joining a football club. In fact we saw such a swift improvement in his ability to focus at school and do what was required, it seemed like a miracle. He is just a really sporty, energetic child and unless that energy finds a positive outlet, it spills out and becomes a problem. His coaches are also great role models for him.

Let the school handle behaviour there. I would talk to him about his behaviour and discuss what he could do differently as situations arise, but I would not punish at home unless he has hurt someone.

[GeorgeTheHippo]

If exercise helps him settle can you build in some for him before school?

[3WildOnes]

I would honestly look at moving schools. This sounds ridiculously draconian. At my children’s school for bad behaviour they get put on Amber, I think hitting is an imediate red. Amber is just a warning. If they get put on red they miss 5 minutes of play and a note is sent home. It seems to work pretty well.

[babbscrabbs]

That seems hugely OTT. Keeping a kid in at playtime all week is so detrimental, especially at that age. He's still learning impulse control and what's acceptable or not. He's going to end up hating school and being more miserable if this carries on.

I think you shouldn't punish him at home either. Otherwise he's being punished twice, harshly? That's extremely unfair.

[BubblesBuddy]

I think the single “Yay” comment wasn’t really worth much attention from the teacher. When it was followed up, I can see why that might be a “be quiet x please” from the teacher. I think using time out strategies for boisterous comments is a bit ott. If there was a lot more interruption, then that’s different. If the behaviour Policy is new, have you seen it? Has the school had problems implementing it? Both my DDs had a class “wag”. At Harvest Festival in the Church one boy yelled out “Pineapples!” when asked what vegetables the children had in their gardeners! Everyone laughed. He followed it up with “Melons”. Did it matter? Of course not. This sounds like a miserable school to me.

[SnuggyBuggy]

I think a single detention per incident would be a proportionate response. People who shout out stuff when a teacher is talking are really annoying so it should be nipped in the bud.

[junebirthdaygirl]

Teaching here for over 30 years and shocked at the level of punishment for a 5 year old. Here they only start at 5 and children have to learn the way to behave in school so a strict correction would be fine. I would even find that extreme for an older child. Poor lad.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Oh hang on - apologies Forty - it was another thread with stupid rules where the OP had said it was a state school several times. I mixed them up. Headteacher’s office for me!

[Devilishpyjamas]

She’s said several times it’s a state school. Most bootcamp schools are.

[Fortybingowings]

Agree with the above. Is this a private school?

[Welshmaiden85]

I’m a teacher. Move schools. Either the behaviour system is draconian or he has particular behavioural difficulties. Whichever it is, he won’t be best served at that school. I’ve seen children start ‘playing to the typecast’ so often in these sorts of over-disciplining schools. Is it an academy OP? Move schools

[EndOfDiscOne]

You put a punishment in place for that long with a child that age they are never ever going to remember what the fuck the punishment is FOR by the end of the week!

I remember being at primary and being a low-level annoying child (fairly honest assessment of it - I had opinions, I had minimal "off" button for them at times and I got into bother because of it - fair cop on that part). Because of something or other that won't have been actually that bad - I struggled socially anyway so tended to keep myself to myself at playtime - the Head (hated me anyway - I was the child of a working single, not Catholic, mother so that was three strikes on my part before I even opened my mouth to get myself into trouble) decided that I should lose my playtimes indefinitely. I had to spend every bloody playtime dusting every individual book on the school reading scheme bookshelves - for weeks until my mum found out about this and requested a meeting with the school. To this day - I have absolutely no bloody clue what the hell I had done or said to warrant this (like I say - I was a low level annoying kid who needed sitting on a bit and a bit of understanding and I was fine) and I just remember being told I was to go along to the Head's office and I was to go there every playtime... and I just went. Hated it and had no idea of why I was being expected to do it - but you just didn't argue.

Did absolute wonders for me struggling socially already - marked me out as the kid not allowed on the playground and meant I missed out on all that commonality of school experience (although I did dodge the lukewarm boak-inducing school milk as a result till Thatcher snatched it )

[ShawshanksRedemption]

In effect this sitting outside the HTs office at break/lunch is like an internal exclusion. Whilst I can understand the Red Spot being given by the teacher, does the school's Behaviour Policy state that the behavioural report that follows is internal exclusion as you've described? If yes, would you like your DS to stay at a school that prescribes this? If not, why has the school instigated it?

[For comparison: In the school I work in, hitting would be an automatic red spot, but shouting out "yay" would be a warning and the following "cheering" would be a yellow spot. These would result a loss of some playtime; 5mins for yellow and 10mins for red. If two reds in a week, then parents are called in to discuss behaviour.]

[BubblesBuddy]

Were the parents consulted on the policy? You have only mentioned the sanctions part. What about how the school encourages and rewards good behaviour? Can he be enthused about good behaviour rewards?

I think you may need to stop being quite so happy about him being a chatterbox if, and only if, it’s not appropriate. Some children are not told not to interrupt, for example. This will annoy teachers if he doesn’t use language appropriately.

If he’s now upset, use this as a time to talk through what he shouldn’t do in future. How do you avoid feeling like this? Make it positive too and look at the rewards for good behaviour. See if he can understand what good behaviour might be.

If the behaviour policy doesn’t mention promoting good behaviour in school, how it will go about it and rewards for good behaviour, it’s useless as a policy. Have you seen it and do you understand it, op?

[boylovesmeerkats]

Sounds to me that he probably gets a lot more attention at school for this negative behaviour and he likes the attention, you stopping screen time is probably similar attention. School need to reward his positive listening, taking rules seriously and good playtime behaviour. The more he feels rewarded for that the more he'll want to do it.

That's the problem with these card systems I think, if a kid gets bored or feels ignored it's a quick way out of that. Some children will be terrified of getting one but they're usually the kids that will behave either way.

I'm glad my sons school dont have similar.

Not that I think your son's behaviour sounds great, especially the hitting thing, but in the context of everything else and his age its not unusual.

[Naty1]

I think the issue can be that breaks arent supervised by teachers. So not having the same control of the kids and behaviour expectations. With a lot going on im certain kids get away with a lot. Plus all the running about (on possibly a full and sugary stomach) is enough to make many lose their reason.
Imo the kids (esp SB ones) are just too young for this. For eg this behaviour in a WB child at nearly 5 would have been in nursery where it might have been dealt with differently. Also those dc will have had 5 terms of preschool compared to just 3.
I think the start of each school year is tiring and nerve-wracking, new teacher/classmates/room/work.

[theyoniwayisnorthwards]

The school are being very excessive IMO, he’s 5! I think being so strict is counter productive, as someone else said he won’t remember what he’s in trouble for a day or two after the incidents. Is his teacher able to regulate his/her own emotions and remain calm or do you think there’s a battle of wills going on?

[KingLooieCatz]

Missing the opportunity to play outside is not helpful at this stage and for a few years to come. DS was in trouble for the first time in a year this week - by no coincidence this was the day that the children didn't go out for break or lunch due to the high winds. Teacher said he was by no means the only one that would probably have had a better day if he'd got out in the fresh air for a bit. That is at age 9.

Impulse control doesn't develop at the same rate in all children, so while some people think he needs a taught a lesson and he won't do it again, some children really haven't developed that maturity yet. Most kids, if not most people, are doing the best they know how to do.

[BarbarianMum]

Im a pretty strict (maybe even draconian) parent with a low tolerance for naughty/cheeky/disruptive behaviour in schools but Id be horrified with a school that treated a little boy that way. No child of mine would attend that school.

[KingLooieCatz]

Sounds like a terrible behavior policy to me, and I have been round the houses on this stuff, DS has ADHD, he couldn't even stay in his chair till he was 7.

DS adores 1:1 attention from an adult and was more than happy to sit in the HT's office rather than share an adult with 30 other kids. The school that sent him to the HT never even made a dent in the behavior problems.

[GrimSqueaker]

The school are being excessive. DD1 could be a right low-level pain at times last year in year 1... she lost golden time, she missed out on class reward points, and she got sent to the head teacher once for a telling off (not really for any major transgressions but as a short shock about how her behaviour was going to be heading). That was absolutely enough to send her the message about boundaries and get her back onto side, needed reminders several times throughout the course of the year - and she's prone to a deterioration in behaviour when her anxiety is high (lots of lots of negative attention seeking to try to get reassurance). Year 2 and being that bit older and more responsible (their school is an infants so they are now "the big ones") seems to be being the making of her too.

If he's reacted like you say I wonder if there might be an element of what DD1 does get (her teacher's actually the one who nailed it right down - last year's teacher really "got" her) where she was a bit immature anyway, and very naturally anxious and would act up a bit just being a prat to mask that anxiety.

I found, after initially going down the path you're on with being desperate to reinforce school, that the best way to deal with it for her was to just shrug my shoulders, say "oh well you've made the choice that you wanted to behave that way and now you've lost your golden time - if that's the choice you made then that's the choice you made" and completely kill it dead as a point of discussion. Later on we'd get the "because I lost most of my golden time there were too many people in the home corner so I didn't get my turn" type stuff and I could push it a bit more that if you hadn't been such a pillock in the first place you would have been able to be in the home corner from the start and get your turn. Once the corner started to be turned I could make a point of telling her "wow that sounds fun - see isn't it so much easier and happier to just do the right thing" and reinforce it that way - but you need to get to where there's a bit of positivity being reinforced by the school in order to be able to do that.

I'm the last to paint my kid as some kind of hard done by angel (she drives me to distraction at times and can be a right stroppy bugger) - but it does sound ridiculously extreme to be coming down as harshly as they are doing - would have absolutely made the situation worse with DD1.

[FullOfJellyBeans]

It does seem an extreme reaction from him, has he never been pulled up on his behaviour before?

My DC have both been pulled up at school for silly behaviour but would be terribly upset but what has happened to OP's DS. Completely OTT and absolutely no appropriate for his age group. I'm not at all surprised by his reaction. I would seriously be reconsidering sending my DC to this school. They sound terrible.

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

It does seem an extreme reaction from him, has he never been pulled up on his behaviour before?