Is my 7-year-old simply not suited to being 1 of 30, and what can I do about it?

[TruffleOfDoom]

7-year-old DD is in year 3 at our village primary school. She has a lot of close friends at the school and an older sibling who goes there and is very happy.

DD, however, is not very happy. She is anxious and every night before school and every morning before school tells me that she does not like school and does not want to go, sometimes getting very upset about it. Last academic year was the exception and we hoped she’d out-grown it, but the anxiety returned worse than ever in September. She is able to manage her anxiety, but it is still very unpleasant for her.

DH and I have spoken many times with her teachers, but I just don’t think that a quiet, ultra-compliant, middle-attainment child will ever be a priority in a busy class of 30 children. In fact, there are have been times that I have spoken to her teachers where I’m quite sure they’ve got her confused her with one of the other quiet, compliant girls in her class. I don’t mean to criticise teachers, I think it’s just the sad reality of state education in this country at the moment.

Just down the road is a lovely little prep school with small class sizes and a very nurturing ethos. What’s more, it does a lot of performing arts and music, both areas that DD excels at in her extracurricular activities, but which she rarely gets to showcase at her school.

In short, it seems like the sort of place she’d thrive at.

Why haven’t we moved her? Well, she doesn’t want to leave her friends. Her lovely, lovely friends, many of whom she’s known since they started the school Nursery together at 3 years old and who have supported her through all her fears and wobbles. As much as she dislikes school, it would break her heart to leave them. With the prep school being smaller (18 in the current year 3) and friendships being fairly settled, there is really no guarantee she’d manage to build friendships as close as the ones she’d be losing.

So a nearly-invisible 7-year old who doesn’t want to go to school, but doesn’t want to not go to it either. Who is distressed enough to need to do something, but well-behaved and compliant enough that it does not visibly disrupt her learning and qualify her for any additional help. What would you do?

I say that as someone who moved a child after yr3 who also had good friends

I would go and visit the private school, talk to them about your concerns and her needs. Then take it from there. My son moved for a similar reason and the new school is much better able to support him as they have more staff, better communication, a full-time nurse, more time, etc. Also his environment is a lot calmer and quieter.

Private schools have a bit of a mythical reputation on Mumsnet, yes some are academic greenhouses others are nurturing environments that have a nurturing ethos and maintain that across the years and consider that when recruiting staff. Despite the non-selective non pressurized environment children generally reach their full potential there because of the supportive structure of all of their strengths and weaknesses
Her anxiety will travel with her, how the school help her manage that anxiety will change (if it's the right school) and that's what will make the difference.
My son has anxiety issues, they still come up at school but the staff have the time and the energy and the resources to deal with them tailored to his needs, it's not a cure but it is a huge relief considering how he was before. They have made a massive change in him.

Don’t just accept that she has anxiety without trying to fix the root cause of it first. Give her Omega 3 supplements and protein with every meal, get her diet as clean as you can. Give her a magnesium supplement and look at adrenal cortex extract. As I said, Inositol is very good. Try to do everything get rid of the anxiety first before doing anything drastic.

Agree with others who say that if you don’t understand the causes of the anxiety then moving may not solve the problem. If there was a particular ‘thing’ you could identify as a problem at the school that would definitely be resolved by the prep school it would make more sense.

In general with anxiety in adults it’s rarely the right answer to withdraw from what causes you anxiety because it makes your world smaller and smaller. I accept children may be different though.

Good luck helping your daughter. I’m sure you’ll come to the right decision as it sounds like you want what’s best for her.

Mover her. Did the same with my DS at that age. As he was the new boy everyone wanted to play with him. Within a month he was settled right in, stayed there until year 8 and thrived. Has since moved on to a senior school as the only one from his prep school and again has made a wide and varied group of friends.

Children are actually more resilient to moving on from old friends and receptive to new friends at that age.

We made sure DS saw his old friends at Beavers, football etc so perhaps your DD could still go to Rainbows or dance etc with her old friends.

I think move her. I teach secondary and to be honest, nice quiet girls who are doing well academically do tend to stay invisible. She may well lose the friends she has now but being friends with people from the age of 7 isnt bad!

My patents moved me from the local primary (large and chaotic class) to a small prep when I was seven. I loved it and it was definitely the right choice, if expensive.

However I'd be looking more into ways to help your DD with her anxiety, whichever school she is at. Emotional resiliency is one of the biggest predictors for educational achievement, and for personal happiness. A friend has had good results for her anxious DD through play therapy focussing on anxiety and it's given her DD many more tools. She's much happier at school as well.

I'd definitely move her. Send her for a taster day at the new school and then go from there. If possible make the decision for her (don't ask her opinion too much or it'll add to her anxiety).

My son moved to a prep at 7 (last half term of y2). I didn't think he was unhappy at the old school, just a bit demotivated (school struggled with helping the more able).

Within that half a term it was like I had my old lovely, happy son back. He was back to being keen about learning, started talking and using a wide vocabulary again and was so enthusiastic about going to school and all he was learning there. I hadn't fully realised how monosyllabic and basically depressed he had become - you don't have a control child to compare them to, so I thought he was just changing as he grew up.

He's been there nearly 3 years now and while there have been ups and downs, as there would be anywhere, but it's the best thing we've done - and in my mother's day card this year, ds wrote 'thank you for paying the fees for me to go to xxx'. Ds still sees friends from his old school occasionally (holidays mainly tbh) but it's like they've never been apart. :)

Firstly, does your DD know her friends mainly through school, or also through activities outside of school/by virtue of being neighbours? Are you friends with her friends' parents?

I'm asking this as DS has remained good friends with several of his NCT pals despite none of them going to the same schools. One NCT friend is as close a friend as his closest in-school friend (which is a beautiful friendship). Another NCT friend is as close as his regular 'friends because we see each other every day and play together' friends at school despite not seeing each other nearly as often.
This is of course entirely because we parents have kept organising opportunities for them to meet up. But what it means is that moving does not necessarily mean she'd lose her friends. Perhaps she wouldn't be able to maintain all her current friendships, and perhaps not at exactly the same level, but if her friends' parents are keen for their children to stay in touch with your DD, it is possible.

Secondly, it sounds as if you are not at all convinced that you've tried everything at the current school yet. It is, of course, difficult to address issues at/with school when school sees no problem. If you want to give current school one last shot, I'd start by impressing on them how serious the situation is (how unhappy your DD is - being constantly unhappy and anxious is NOT acceptable). If you cannot get school to see that it is serious and needs addressing, in a thorough 'don't stop until it has been sorted' way, then you needn't bother trying with them IMO. But if you do get the impression that you've made them see that there is a problem here that needs addressing/sorting, then it would probably be worth trying with current school before moving.
At the same time you could have similar conversations with the potential new school. Having concluded that your DD's anxieties will most likely follow her to her new school, rather than be sorted by moving, you need the new school to be on board to help her from day one. Rather than wanting to pursue a 'wait and see' approach and support her if and when any problems arise. Because in the latter case, chances are that even in a smaller class, your DD as a quiet, well behaved, middle attainment child who presents as fairly happy and settled, would be overlooked. So see if the potential new school is happy to sit down with you to discuss how to address and manage your DD's anxiety. If you can't make the new school see that there is a problem that needs addressing, I wouldn't move her. For example if they want to see your DD in their school first to then judge for themselves if there is a problem. This might mean that they don't see any even though the anxiety is still present, just like current school doesn't see any problems. And it also indicates that they don't really take parents' experiences and opinions into account. The classic 'but the child is ok at school' that disregards how the 'ok at school' is bought with lots of 'not ok at home'.

Hi op. My youngest is like this and my friend has also done the same thing.

My friend moved her ds in primary and he stayed friends with his old school friends quite easily. It took a bit of effort at first with arranging play dates but then it came easily.

I think it's harder when they are secondary age as friendships move in a different way and my girl isn't in touch with anyone from her secondary.

She is now in a tiny school and it has made a world of difference!

Sorry I'm not picking up on everyone's suggestions and comments, it is all really useful.

Calmer and quieter would suit her better FairyPenguin. In fact, I think calmer, quieter and a sense that her teacher really knows her is pretty much exactly what we are after. I shouldn't have blamed 'state education' in my OP as I'm sure there are plenty of state schools across the country that could provide this. In fact her own state school did provide it for her last year!

I don't mean to ignore your posts Emily, I'm just a bit wary of giving her concentrated supplements without any evidence of there being a deficiency. Natural or not, her body will have to process these. She is a picky eater who won't have sauces on her food or things that are 'mixed together', so eats very little processed food. Fortunately she eats a good variety of meat, fruit and vegetables, and doesn't like squash or fizzy drinks. She is tall for her age and very energetic, so no obvious signs of physical disorders that might prevent vitamins/minerals being absorbed from the food she eats. No allergies etc. Rarely ever ill. I'm sorry if I seem ungrateful, but there have been signs of anxiety since she was very young and I am inclined to think it is just another aspect to her personality.

She doesn't currently do many clubs with friends from her school, but many do Cubs so she could join that if she moved. She knows all her friends through school, although I have become friends with many of the Mums.

It's useful to have a secondary school teacher perspective, thanks BossWitch. The risk is that her new friends may not end up at the same secondary as her as destinations are very varied, whereas at her current school most of her friends will go onto the local (small,

My daughter is at a prep school - she was very shy & anxious when she started and it has been amazing to watch her confidence blossom. She’s in a class of 20 - they have a teacher, a full-time TA assigned to their class, and also a student teacher.

As others have said above, children make new friends quickly. Every year there have been new starters & they become integrated in the group very quickly.

If you can afford it, I would definitely move her.

Sorry, lots of people have asked if we can afford it and I’ve been very British and avoided the question! Yes, we can comfortably afford to privately educate her at local day schools until 18, with only minor changes to our household budget. Should DS move across too, we’d have to cut back quite a bit but would manage just fine until secondary, at which point I would either have to change job/increase my hours, or look at making some more drastic cuts to our household budget. Homeschooling would actually work out far more expensive in terms of lost income not to mention lost sanity, but we are nowhere near that stage yet.

Before taking the leap of moving schools, I’d want to know “why”. Why is she struggling? What do school bake of her? Have they got concerns? Have you got broader concerns?

Perhaps worth at least think about developmental difficulties (eg ASD) or specific learning difficulties. If present, they’ll cause difficulties even in the new school.

School are always very surprised when we says she’s anxious and often unhappy and tell us how happy she is at school. I have a horrid feeling that happy might just = doesn’t complain, doesnt come in crying. We have told them how good she is at masking her anxiety and what her ‘tells’ are, but what is obvious to 2 loving parents is obviously much harder to spot across a busy classroom by a teacher who’s known her less than 7 months.

They do notice that she can be quiet and lack confidence, but haven’t been able to do much other than reassure her she can come and talk to them with any worries (except there’s always a queue to speak to the teacher, and DD won’t speak up when other children jump in with more ‘urgent’ questions, so this doesn’t work well in practice). Her current teacher will give her the odd hug, which is lovely and much appreciated by DD, so she does care, but at the same time, DD has given up raising her hand in class as she says there’s no point as the teacher always picks the same friends and never gets round to her (haven’t actually seen this myself so might just be DD’s perception)

What I do notice is that the strategies tend to be towards masking the symptoms of the anxiety rather than easing the anxiety itself. For example, in year 1 she was anxious going in and would often cry quietly to herself. They started rewarding her for not crying, which did stop the crying but DD reported feeling just as sad. Autumn school report proudly concluded that she’d got over her morning wobbles. This year she has been scared to get answers wrong on worksheets, so will choose the easier tasks instead of risk getting something she needs help with and not being able to get the teacher’s help to explain it within the allotted time. She now tries the harder worksheets and copies from her friends when she gets stuck, then cries about it when she gets home. We pointed this out to the school. School report proudly proclaimed how she’s become more confident and resourceful I read it out to her and she said that’s because she just copies from her friend now. (I have encouraged her not to copy and to either take her best guess and be prepared to get the questions wrong or write ‘I didn’t understand it’ on the worksheet.)

That sounded more critical than I meant it to. Clearly the teacher can’t explain each worksheet to 30 different children. I just meant that the root problem can’t be measured by which worksheet she’s chosen/completed. The root problem is that she is unable to get the teacher’s attention when needed, so has become risk avoidant. The new problem is that she feels it makes her teacher happier when she hands in a copied worksheet than one she’s tried but failed at.

Everything you're saying is showing why she needs to be in a smaller, more nurturing class, where the teacher will notice her not putting her hand up or copying and if they need to be told about it by you, will then do something about it!

If you've spoken to the school, told them she's anxious and they're not helping her/encouraging her, it's unlikely to happen now.

The unwillingness to take on harder tasks, fear of failure, etc, sounds like something I heard recently about fixed/growth mindset. It might be worth looking it up, as there may be strategies you could use that would help your dd.

Oh truffle that's heartbreaking. I really do think a small, calm class in a prep could be really helpful for her. Take her to an open day if you can, see how she feels about it. Reassure her that she'll make new friends and can still see her old ones. Cross the bridge about secondary when you get there.

"The new problem is that she feels it makes her teacher happier when she hands in a copied worksheet than one she’s tried but failed at."

It probably does, because the teacher is seeing the hard, copied worksheet as one where your dd has tried hard at and succeeded and the easy /mistake filled one as one where your dd hasn't put the effort in. She's not seeing the situation for what it is.

Move her. My daughter went to the lovely, small village school, but never gelled with the others in her year group. We moved her to a private girls school with larger classes and she fitted in immediately and thrived. Children need to be happy to learn, and one size does not fit all

DD was similar at the same age. Her teacher put things in place which just meant that DD felt obliged to look content and tell the teacher what things she had enjoyed at school that week and that play time had been OK. DD conforms to the expectations that are placed upon her to the detriment of her own sense of self. She didn't want to be home schooled (well she did, but worried about missing her friends) and didn't want to move schools (and we couldn't find a suitable alternative for her.). In the end, I bit the bullet and took her out of school, she went back for certain activities, and then for 2 days a week.. school were lovely about the whole thing. She saw a child psychologist who talked to her about beliefs and values and helped her to understand that her point of view wasn't always the same as other people's but that her beliefs were important. After a term, she willingly went back to school. She still finds some aspects challenging, she has a high moral benchmark that many people don't meet (the rest of her family fall far short!!) but she finds happiness is art, football and creative activities.

In my years as a parent, observing my own family and others around me, I think if you have gotten to the stage where you are considering a change, make one. You can always change back.

Of the many changes we have made, this one is probably the best..
www.yogajournal.com/lifestyle/good-morning-yoga-poses-jumpstart-kids-day

No, they’re not seeing the situation for what it is. To be fair, I flag these things up but in a very calm, polite, ‘I appreciate you’re really busy’ kind of way, I use phases like ‘this is really worrying us’, but have never gone in all guns blazing and really hounded them for action/feedback (wonder where DD gets it from?! ) Reading through this thread, I really don’t think I’ve given the school a proper chance to fix it. I wonder if we’ve ever really managed to communicate exactly how big a deal this is for us and DD. Although I think admitting that we’re considering moving her might help get the point across!

WOW Forgiveness, that sounds just like DD.

She used to come to yoga with me and really enjoyed it, so I’ll look into that link, thanks. She has a gymnastics routine and some vocal exercises she does most mornings, which sounds like it’s in a similar vein. She loves routine, anything physical or musical and has always had a very high moral benchmark (I was reading her old school report school reports last night and her nursery and reception reports all mention this!) I’m glad your DD is doing well now.