What to look for if you suspect your child's teacher isn't very good

[Sparklywheeelbarrow]

Have NC'd for this.

If your child is a bright and capable child but you suspect their teacher is letting them coast rather than challenging them or getting them to reach their potential?

The reason I ask is that my dd is in a class with a teacher who may be doing this. The teacher in question used to work with the parent of another child in the class (job share) and long before this teacher joined our school the parent (whose judgement I totally trust) had mentioned how disorganised she was, that she was very wishy washy when it came to keeping up with the curriculum and didn't stick to lesson plans etc - then she joined our school and is now teaching our kids ... so much uneasiness ensued.

We are now halfway through the year and my dd has complained many times that this teacher treats them 'like babies' (they are year 4 for context), which makes me wonder if she is underestimating the capabilities of the class and has lower expectations of them than she should? I believe she taught Year R prior to this, if it's relevant.

So I'm wondering what I ought to be looking out for here - other than the fact that my dd doesn't like her, and that other parents aren't happy with her. What should good a teacher of Year 4 be doing to get the best out of a class?

Assuming your DD will have this teacher for about 16 more (school) weeks, I would do very little. In the seven years of primary school, your child will have some 'better' and some 'worse' teachers, but there is nothing you can do really to make a 'worse' one become magically better.

You could if you feel so inclined, ask to meet the teacher and discuss your DD's needs, e.g. that you feel she is coasting and what does the teacher think? With some luck, the teacher will find ways to challenge your DD more. If not, you haven't lost anything.

What to look out for:
You do not need to look out for what the teacher is doing right/wrong to get the best out of the class. That is the HT's job. Even if you were able to determine all the ways the teacher is going 'wrong', what would you do with that knowledge? Rock up at the HT and demand the teacher be fired?!
You do look out for any negative effects on your own child. If your child is coasting, is she also developing a 'I don't need to do my best' attitude? That is something I'd watch out for, and try to counteract. If the teacher's behaviour expectations are geared more towards 4yo children, is your DD starting to behave more like a 4yo? People who are treated like little children tend to behave like little children... That's another thing I'd watch out for, and if I'd observe it happening, I'd have serious words with my child that I expect better behaviour from her, even if the rest of the class is 'doing it too'.
If the curriculum is not being taught systematically, are there gaps in your child's knowledge? You seem clued up enough to be able to determine if there are things your DD is missing out on due to the teacher's possibly somewhat disorganised approach. If you notice something is being neglected, provide some targetted support for that particular area at home.

Of course it would be better if this were not necessary. But there really is no point in you trying to observe, and judge, the teacher's performance, other than in how your DD is affected. Overall, I would file it as a 'slow' year at school and hope for better teacher next year; whilst keeping an eye on possible negative effects on your DD and counteracting them if/when they do materialise.

I don't think you can do much other than work more with your child at home.

DD2 in her second year with teacher who lets her coast - and it is very frustrating - she also encourages tattling which is causing problems at home with her siblings.

We are trying to manage it at home as all attempts to talk to teacher haven't worked.

With DS I spent a year trying to work with one teacher only to be told there were no issues and got a report raising all the issue we had and blaming him - I did complain on the report slip. HT followed that up and later heard from many other parents with similar problems.

With DD2 the reports are glowing but she not reading at a level children her age should be though she’s ahead of most in her class, her spelling dropped significantly to point we are having to redo a program we’d already gone through at home and she is very behind were her older siblings were at her age plus the welsh test last year which we didn’t get till end of the year showed a significant drop in ability.

There are clearly issues but we are being told everything is fine. We worry that's because significant proportion of rest of class is even further behind.

We've tried focusing on specific things - like reading level and spelling and while we do get some agreement that perhaps she should be further along there nothing has changed.

Thanks so much for your replies, they are really helpful, much appreciated.

I agree that with 16 weeks left of the year we have to make the best of things, I wouldn't pull her out of school for example. I think my fear is the possibility that she could get the same weak teacher again next year, as that already happened to her in years R and 1, though in years 2 and 3 the teachers were stronger and we were happy.

I am more than happy to help her at home, the issue I have with that is that she responds differently to me than she does to other adults in authority, so for example she might get stroppy and go off in a huff if she doesn't understand something and she won't give me a chance to explain, she will just get in a mood - whereas with teachers or other adults she will behave better and listen (something I have noticed with lots of children, not just mine).

My personal experience is that there are many plateaus in education. My kids have had school years where they appear to have stopped learning and others where they made huge progress which cancels out the slow years.

Sadly, the current state school assessment system means that once kids reach their expectation for the year, there is no incentive for teachers to challenge them, but instead they have to concentrate on those that haven't reached the expected levels. So a bright child will get bored and feel as if they are being treated younger as the class is reinforcing work they can already do.

You bear in mind that what you think is a bad teacher others may think is brilliant (but not necessarily want to say in your present if you've already said they are bad). I've had conversations with other parents where one of us mentions how brilliant our dc's teacher was in such and such a year, and the other says "that's good, mine had a terrible one" and they turn out to be the same teacher.

Because children are all different, the methods the teacher prefers may be great for some of the kids, but not all. If it was my dd I'd go and see the teacher and ask her to stretch my dd. Going in and speaking to her will focus her attention on your child in a way that might not be happening at present.
Agree that you can't really look specifically at what the teacher is doing - my dc had a teacher one year who covered the curriculum but didn't check that all the kids had understood before moving on to the next task. So you could look at what topics your dd is doing and go over it at home to ensure she gets it. If it is too easy, thrn it is okay to say to the teacher that she needs more.
My mum always used to say that it's the squeeky hinge that gets oiled, so don't be afraid to draw the school's attention to sny concerns you have.

"Sadly, the current state school assessment system means that once kids reach their expectation for the year, there is no incentive for teachers to challenge them" sorry but that's nonsense. Coasting schools that don't challenge children are a target for OFSTED

You're reasonable to have a chat with the teacher about your child's progress.

You are totally unreasonable to start trying to make a list of things for you to try abd score the teacher and judge how good thry are because some friend was bitching. That's just nasty and the sort of malicious crap most schools hats having to deal with

Kids will have a range of teachers. They'll like some methods abd not others.

Sadly, the current state school assessment system means that once kids reach their expectation for the year, there is no incentive for teachers to challenge them, but instead they have to concentrate on those that haven't reached the expected levels
Except the expectations for each child is based on prior attainment so expected progess/target for a highly able child will differ to one who is much weaker.

mrz, but it's actually true. I don't think my ds has made any progress at all due to school/teacher's teaching, but he is so ahead, and keep making progress himself, so even the school is not doing anything to extend him, he is doing it himself. My ds reached expectation for end of yr6 in yr2. School doesn't really need to do anything else.

I mean, I'm only talking about one subject.

If you’re not happy then you need to look at changing schools.

Tbh with a SB child im not too keen on them basing it on prior attainment (nor calling such young highly able etc).
There seens an incentive for kids to be measured lower so they can make certain progress later. Rate them too high and it's hard to show progress.

Believe it or not, but your DC are regularly monitored for a range of achievement targets, and unless the whole school, including senior management, are particularly bad, this attainment will be shared and compared across year groups. A class of low achievers, for no good reason, would stand out and steps would be taken. Teachers are observed, standard lesson plans and ideas are shared. Never has there been more data collection/meetings/standards to attain than there is nowadays. And all expected to be individualized, with cuts to resources and staff, and the inclusion of more extreme behavioral needs in mainstream classes.
If you feel your own DS is coasting, why aren't they showing initiative in asking what else they can do? I have never been in a classroom where there wasn't extension work available, whether as a teacher or an observer. (And also parent helper for a few years. )

Irvine I'd be very worried if a child wasn't making progress. If there genuinely isn't any progress you and the teacher need to be asking why.

Mrz, no, he has made progress. He has done it at home. He is doing GCSE level problem at ease at home, some even beyond. Primary level work in general is a piece of cake.
Teacher, this year in particular isn't interested. She said he would do well at sats, even he took it now, at October parents eve. But hasn't given any extension work, outside of easy/medium/hard/extra hard levels that whole school uses to differentiate. At least yr3/4 teachers tried to differentiate. Not this year. And I have lost will to try with her.(I did twice.)

In the 2016/17 school year, my DD was in Y5 and was the only year when I truly worried about her education.
The teacher had no control over the children and would shout and lose his temper regularly.
He didn't keep up with the curriculum, so the kids had to catch up in Y6.
When he didn't know how to challenge the brightest ones in the class, he just sent them to the library or had them playing games on the school iPads.
The brighter kids went to the Deputy Head saying they were being shouted at all the time for no reason. The Deputy Head spoke to the teacher, and his lessons were monitored for a while. He was once caught by the Head screaming at them for not tidying up in time. Proper meltdown.
At parents evening I confronted the teacher and he was very defensive saying he had decades of experience. I said I think my DD isn't learning anything. Her books were very light of work. He asked me to leave the room. The next day, the headteacher asked me to come in to speak to him. I did, and the headteacher defended his member of staff. I offered up evidence, but the HT said that there was precious few candidates for the job right now, and he had little choice in the matter.

So about a couple of months before the year ended, this teacher left the school for a research post. I don't know what made him go in the end, but I strongly suspect he was asked to resign. The teacher who took over carried on teaching the class into this school year (Y6) and I have been impressed on how she has done her very best to catch the kids up and prepare them for SATs in May. The school is a very good one in Central London, but we had a bad egg. It happens.

IME, progress is "proved" by having the child do things in class or in a test that they did not previously do. As long as OFSTED see progress in the records then they are content.
However, it's not really evidence of progress if the child is continually tested well below their true level. I had this issue with DS2 in maths throughout primary school.

In answer to the OP's question, there is nothing a parent can do wrt to school if the class teacher either can't or won't provide challenging work.

@Brilliotic has nailed it. DS2 is in year 9 now and he developed the attitude of not needing to put in effort but managed to coast along at the top for years, but not now. Now his results are beginning to slip. He's no longer easily the top at most subjects, but he has some terrible work habits developed at primary school and he doesn't accept that things need to change.
Actually one of the worst things DS does is aim to finish all tests in half the allocated time. He learned to do that at primary school in those endless times tables tests. Back then, he got 100% every time. However, he has the same habit now, and he's dropping marks repeatedly through not reading the question properly, or not developing his arguments enough, and he's only getting enough to just about keep him in the top sets.
I'm going to have to try to persuade him to break the bad habits or he will not do as well as he should at GCSE or A level.
I tried my best to persuade primary teachers to challenge him and not to let him race through things he found easy, but I was never successful as the teachers have other priorities than well behaved children who are making good progress as far as the record keeping is concerned.

I tried my best to persuade primary teachers to challenge him and not to let him race through things he found easy, but I was never successful

With all due respect mmzz, how would you expect a teacher to prevent your DS racing through if he is intent on doing so? It's usual practice to encourage thorough reading of q, and using remaining time to go through answers again. I think the answer lies in your son's hands here, not in blaming his teachers for his bad habits.

No, Historically, I think it's schoo/teacher's fault. If you are given the level of work you can do in your half asleep state for years and never been challenged to stop and think, that's the habit they will develop.

He must be really intelligent if he could do everything given to him while half asleep for the whole of primary. And he hasn't learned to read the q thoroughly or check work in the two years at secondary so far? I am surprised.

Maybe you have never met a child who is outlier in their ability.

Actually, I have. I've taught a fair few too.

How did you differentiate for them?

Depends what we were doing, but it would usually rely on knowing the kid was finished the main task if it wasn't initially a tiered piece of work, so if they sat on their laurels quietly looking as if they were still on task, I wouldn't always know they'd need it.