What to look for if you suspect your child's teacher isn't very good

[Sparklywheeelbarrow]

Have NC'd for this.

If your child is a bright and capable child but you suspect their teacher is letting them coast rather than challenging them or getting them to reach their potential?

The reason I ask is that my dd is in a class with a teacher who may be doing this. The teacher in question used to work with the parent of another child in the class (job share) and long before this teacher joined our school the parent (whose judgement I totally trust) had mentioned how disorganised she was, that she was very wishy washy when it came to keeping up with the curriculum and didn't stick to lesson plans etc - then she joined our school and is now teaching our kids ... so much uneasiness ensued.

We are now halfway through the year and my dd has complained many times that this teacher treats them 'like babies' (they are year 4 for context), which makes me wonder if she is underestimating the capabilities of the class and has lower expectations of them than she should? I believe she taught Year R prior to this, if it's relevant.

So I'm wondering what I ought to be looking out for here - other than the fact that my dd doesn't like her, and that other parents aren't happy with her. What should good a teacher of Year 4 be doing to get the best out of a class?

mmzz, as you recommended, we started doing UKMT questions. It's really fun. It does make my ds think hard. That's the kind of thing I was looking for my ds. So, thank you for recommendation.

Perfectly: You can talk to the Head. It is perfectly reasonable to say that your child is in a class where the children are not engaged 2 days a week. (Do not say your DD takes the piss - it makes your DD seem disruptive).

All Head teachers, every single one of them, should do monitoring of teaching in the classrooms. All teachers. Even Deputy Head teachers. They have to assure Governors that the teaching is of the highest quality and, if it is not, what is to be done about it. Performance management is used to enhance teaching practice with improvement of classroom practice being a target. Head teachers are also responsible for reporting progress. Therefore, ask what the assessment of your DDs progress looks like. If she has plateaued, ask what is being done to address this.

The Head really should know there is a problem and be doing something about it. What you say should not be news! Ask what strategies are going to be put in place to ensure better behaviour so the children can learn effectively. Do they have a "good learner" strategy in school that teachers and children follow? The children know what a good learner looks like and follow the rules! You are entitled to ask for a calm classroom with children making progress and learning effectively. Howwever, school trips tend to be a bit more rowdy! They are out of school but they should be safe and learning.

Thanks for the advice Bubbles. Before the school trip, every time anybody talked when they should have been listening, they were moved somewhere else, this took half an hour, the teacher was adamant that DD and her best friend should be split up, I've no idea why, and they kept getting back together anyway, DD's best friend says that it's always like that, she can't control the class. The teacher's Swedish, I'm wondering if Swedish 9/10 yos respond to being treated like infants?

the teacher was adamant that DD and her best friend should be split up, I've no idea why, and they kept getting back together anyway, DD's best friend says that it's always like that, she can't control the class
So there is a child who gets given a perfectly reasonable instruction and decides not to follow it, blatantly ignore a member of staff and then blames the teacher for 'not being able to control the class'?
A child also takes the piss and that's because the teacher can't control the class?

Right. Seen that happen to a number of colleagues. The vast majority of the time that's students CHOOSING to be rude and badly behaved. How hard is it to follow a basic instruction?

When I'm working with staff who have classroom management targets there's a 2 lines to my support:

1. Help them develop their in class strategies because there are areas of weakness
2. Make it abundantly clear to students that they do not pick and choose who they will behave for, they do not take the piss out of staff, they do not ignore perfectly reasonable instructions and they do not blame a member of staff for them opting to be badly behaved or rude.

As I point out to the pupils in the teacher's class, I don't 'control' the students in any of my classes. They are human beings with agency and freedom. I can't control them and nor do I want to. If all 30 students wanted to trash my room then I can't physically stop them. But they don't do it because they choose to be polite and well behaved young adults. They know how to behave and they CHOOSE to conduct themselves in a way that means I rarely have to sanction or raise by voice.

'But miss/sir can'r control us' is the go to get out for we CHOOSE not to behave and we blame the teacher because we can.

MaisyPops I think the teacher was at fault for arbitrarily keeping them apart in the first place. They weren't doing anything wrong. They kept getting back together because they naturally wanted to be together.

As I said, DD usually masks at school, they have no idea how she behaves at home, she doesn't bother masking with this teacher.

Her friend was talking to me quite candidly, and I've observed how the class respond to this teacher. If you patronise children, you lose their respect.

DD tells me they're much better behaved with their other teacher, because he treats them like 9/10 yos, not 3/4/5 yos.

Her friend was talking to me quite candidly, and I've observed how the class respond to this teacher. If you patronise children, you lose their respect.
They may not like the teacher, but that doesn't excuse children opting to be badly behaved and ignore instructions. I get utterly fed up with parents who think their child is ok to behave poorly because they happen to not like a teacher or the way they do things. By secondary they'll be having 12 teachers a year. Bet your bottom dollar they won't like every approach (I'm sure some of my students will prefer other teachers to me, just like some will prefer my style over other people's).

DD tells me they're much better behaved with their other teacher, because he treats them like 9/10 yos, not 3/4/5 yos.
It is irrelevant.
There's 2 levels of respect and behaviour.

1 is basic respect and basic decent conduct. When the teacher is talking to the class, you don't. When the teacher gives a perfectly reasonable instruction, follow it. (If you want to discuss it later then politely ask the teacher if you can have a chat). When another pupil is giving an answer, you are respectful. When you are in the classroom, you look after the space. You use please and thank you. If you borrow something, you arr careful and then you return it etc.

2 is the wider personal level respect. This comes with time. It's in the relationships you build, when kids respect you as a subject specialist or because you've offered them lots of support. When you've had a bit of banter with them or you've noticed tjat they're overwhelmed or if you offer them a hot chocolate from the staff room because they're in 6th form, been dumped and it feels like the end if the world. It's when kids take your subject and openly say thry hope they get you.

Personal feelings about the teacher absolutely affect #2.
#1 is basic behaviour and conduct standards regardless of how much you like someone.

I covered a GCSE class last week full of tricky characters. I wouldn't expect to have category 2 respect, but i sure as hell expect category 1. Basic behaviour standards are not a negotiation. As it happened, i'd previously taught some of them and they said 'have we got you! Guys don't start will you. Mrs Pops is sound'. so in addition to #1, I quickly gained #2 by word of mouth. We got loads of work done and so my #2 respect with some students i had never met started to develop.

Sorry, but Perfectly, but I do agree with Maysie. You say you have no idea why your dd and her friend need to be split up, but it's very clear from your post, because they talked when they should be listening. I can understand the frustration of teacher's incompetence for able child, but undermining teacher is not the answer, imo.
You say your dd normally mask her attitude at school but not with this teacher. Sounds like she knows you don't respect this teacher so she thinks it's OK.
I think my ds's teacher is not good for my ds. But if he started to act like he doesn't respect her, I would come down on him like a ton of bricks. Respect for the teacher is more important than being challenged or stretched, imo.

irvineoneohone
With you.

I'm all for working with teachers who have weaknesses and helping them improve. I'll also be very up front that some staff could have better classroom management.

However, too often I've seen kids decide they don't like a teacher, misbehave/be rude, whine to home, home back the child over the teacher, child knows this, home make it clear they think the teacher is crap, child feels untouchable because home will minimise anything their child dors 'because teacher can't control the group'. I've seen classes develop pack mentalitiea where they are foul to one teacher and then the second I turn up (or another established colleague) they behave perfectly, then we leave and you can hear them laugh (so we go back in and start pulling studenys out). In awful situations, I've seen parents club together to target staff. I've seen classes of students openly discuss their plans to try and get a member of staff sacked.

How nice are you???? How do you know this teacher doetstick to lesson plans?
For your info we don't have to produce lesson plans!!! As teachers we are permanently under scrutiny, it is rare for a teacher to seriously under perform in the current climate!!!!

You don't teach SPAG, do you @elisa2502?!

Typed this on an iPhone!

irvine no I didn't say that DD and her friend talked when they should have been listening, she'd decided right from the off that they should have different partners. DD was listening to everything, as she has this teacher for the subject she's enjoying most at the moment. I pulled DD up for taking the piss, the same as I did with any other child, but the teacher definitely had her attention the whole time.

It's almost time-to-leave-a-thread-o'clock when a school thread becomes people making snide comments about mistakes and typos rather than actual discussion.

Gosh how disappointing as a 19 weeks pregnant Y5 teacher, who has completed an 11 hour day today, that this thread has resulted in some very sweeping generalisations about teachers.

I agree that teachers should challenge children. However, I work in a school where this is the ethos, and we have had plenty of training as to how appropriately challenge children. We also have challenge plans for children who are particularly able. If this teacher has never taught Year 4 before, it is the school's responsibility to support her. As a parent, you won't know if this is happening or not. Perhaps she hasn't had sufficient support from the school, and as a result, feels a bit out of her depth. I also think it's extremely disheartening that you have taken the word of this parent about the teacher's organisation. If you were honestly that concerned, you would have contacted the school yourself, rather than basing your judgement on the comments of a parent (who has been extremely unprofessional speaking about a previous colleague like this. That would be completely unacceptable in my school and would be a matter to be dealt with by the headteacher).

What bothers me too, OP, is that you have aired your concerns on mumsnet, but have you actually spoken to your child's teacher about your concerns? Teachers are absolutely swamped, and if parents have a concern that we are unaware of, going on mumsnet will not resolve it. I would much rather see a parent to discuss problems in person so I can act upon them.

It wasn't the typos.i was referring to the ???? and !!!! punctuation

But still, it doesn't add anything to the discussion so feels a bit like trying ti have a cheap shot at a poster.

I would much rather see a parent to discuss problems in person so I can act upon them
Same. And true for the vast majority of my colleagues.
A quick call for a sensible chat is all that is required.
I also agree someone speculating about a former colleague's professional attributes to parents is unprofessional.

@Flatwhite, have you read the thread or just the OP?

But still, it doesn't add anything to the discussion so feels a bit like trying ti have a cheap shot at a poster.

Ok, I'll accept that and apologise for the post. Sorry.

I don't know if this makes a difference but my understanding was that the former colleague talked about the teacher when she was unknown to the other parents she was taking to. So, it was just a take from a former workplace.
She couldn't have known that the teacher in question would later be hired to work at this school.
I don't think anyone would call me unprofessional if I told stories about the odd behaviour of my ex-colleague from a firm I worked at years ago. Do teachers operate to a different code of conduct? Do you sign the Official Secrets Act?

Oh sorry @mmzz, my bad! 11 hour day today with no breaks, so I'm exhausted. I still feel, however, that entirely trusting another parent's viewpoint, regardless of the workplace, is a bit crap without actually seeing the teacher in person to make your own judgment!

I just wish parents would confront teachers with issues though rather than putting them online. We regularly have parents at our school airing their concerns online, but not actually coming to see us, then complaining that nothing has been done!

You ought to take care of yourself, Flatwhite.
I guess you mean parents on FB, discussing a teacher and naming him/ her?
I had issues with various teachers at different times. Asking online, without naming names can give a new perspective. It is easy to think of your DC's needs, for example, without considering the wider class context.
However, it's true that someone has the best chance of resolving a problem, if they know about it. The risk of speaking direct to the teacher is that the teacher is defensive and combative. (That happens sometimes, too).

I don't know if this makes a difference but my understanding was that the former colleague talked about the teacher when she was unknown to the other parents she was taking to. So, it was just a take from a former workplace.
She couldn't have known that the teacher in question would later be hired to work at this school
I read it differently as in teacher was hired at the school and then parent and friend (who had previously worked with the teacher) were discussing them as in 'oh so and so is teaching at your school. I used to work with them and...'

If it's as you describe then I wouldn't call that unprofessional, just the way the cookie crumbles.
If they were discussing the teacher once the teacher had started then I think it is unprofessional.

'"The teacher in question used to work with the parent of another child in the class (job share) and long before this teacher joined our school the parent (whose judgement I totally trust) had mentioned how disorganised she was, that she was very wishy washy when it came to keeping up with the curriculum and didn't stick to lesson plans etc - then she joined our school and is now teaching our kids ... so much uneasiness ensued.

I totally scan read it and missed the point spectacularly. Sorry.
I'm impressed the OP remembered the person's name then. Or is it just me who remembers stories/anecdotes and not the names?