A thread for 8+ Westminster, St Paul's, Sussex House, Kings etc

[user8957365]

Merry Christmas!
Just the small matter of getting through the 8+ exams and wondered if there are other parents out there who might be interested in joining this thread.
Did any of your sons sit Kings in December? How did they find it? Apparently only 14 places going - gulp!
How are you preparing for St Paul's etc? If they are parents who have already been through the process and can offer any advice it will be very gratefully received.
Cheers

The schools calculate carefully how many places they offer as they know many boys will get 2 or 3 offers. Their plan is to over offer by just the right amount and that is why wait lists often don't move (or don't move at at first). But some parents are happy to pay both deposits and even beyond to first term's fees to keep their options open , and plans do change - one family we knew decided to relocate to the US between accepting a school and their son starting. So there is always a chance.

Sadly did not get Kings either. Dreadful telling my son when he came home this afternoon - to have done so well through exams and interviews and end up with neither school. Does anyone understand how WL work? It strikes me it’s not in any particular order and perhaps depends on whether the registrar chooses to push your child forward or not?
We do have a backup school to go to but was never a preferred choice. Oh well, we just have to make the most of it.

Gidricsshallow, thank you our posts crossed! That’s interesting what you say and may be true of Kings but WUS categorically told parents they would not over offer this year - only the number places available plus a very small reserve list. WUS also have a ridiculously low deposit so I can definitely see how some parents will pay the deposit to secure the place even if not yet sure if they’ll take place.
As and when boys change their minds or don’t turn up does anyone know whether schools will revert to their original waiting list or look for fresh new candidates?

User44444 don't give up hope, if you have your heart set on Kings, email/call them everyday to show how keen you are. There were only 14 places so being on the reserve list means your boy stands a very good chance especially if you remind them of your presence! When we applied to dcs prep dh and I took turns emailing/ calling until they got bored of us and assured us of a place for dd at 3.

User44444 - where is your back up?

User44444, i think the RL should be valid until September when the new term starts. So don't give up hope until then. You might need to sacrifice your deposit to your backup school though...

I am sure there must be movement between now and September in the classes. I would definitely call them and ask to understand the process. I see no reason why the schools shouldn’t be as transparent as possible.

Ok I just phoned my friend whose head of faculty at SPS. He said he was a little removed from the process but said that the ‘roll’ definitely moves between now and September. He gave a couple of reasons 1) a couple of individuals do pay deposits at multiple schools 2) individuals realise the cost and try to retrospectively apply for scholarships (very rarely ever given) 3) some individuals do move due to parents job.

This all being said he said that whilst his at arms length to the process he was really suprised that people thought the waiting list had stopped moving and said it normally takes a couple of weeks to settle. He definitely said to phone again and just ask for transparency.

Thank you so much. Very kind of you to share this knowledge. I do think perhaps it comes down to the school and personalities behind the admissions office. Whilst one school’s registrar has been wonderful even though she didn’t have any good news for me, the other has been dismissive and not particularly engaged. The whole thing seems opaque to me and truly horrible when your 8 year old son is at the receiving end of such disappointment after working so hard.

I may let Friday pass and drop both registrars another email on Monday. What a horrible process.

Trinity, our backup school is Wetherby. It’s a great school, I know, but when your son has excelled academically for years and ended up on the waiting list at Kings College and Westminster forgive me if I say I just feel I may be selling my little guy a bit short. I also wonder if I have not been pushy enough and other waitlisted parents got ahead of us.

In my shoes how often would you call? Is an email better?

I would phone both on Monday, I wouldn’t e mail. The registrar is the main point of contact for each school and I think it’s a shame when they lack empathy to parents emotions. However don’t overestimate influence. Once the offers are out they’ll be a daily status report showing the level of acceptances and a meeting to discuss when to move on the WL. The registrar will be part of that meeting but will be driven by the senior leadership team of the school.

Your back up is an awesome/amazing school although I do understand your disappointment. A rejection would be easier to handle than WL

Thank you so much. I fought the urge to pester both schools today. I shall try again on Monday!

Schools don’t organise their waitlist by how pushy the parents are, in fact it could have the opposite result in making the school think that you are not great parents to have at school.

I had a friend with a child on the waiting list - at one school she kept calling the admissions office to let them know and enquire about the list moving every day. By the very very end of the time he did get a place and she said they were delightful in the office each time she called, and very informative and helpful as they could be.
I was quite impressed by that school (one of the big 3) - it's very easy to be aloof and write parents off as pushy or bothersome but it's nice to hear that (assuming parents are pleasant and polite, if persistent) that they have a bit of empathy and are willing to be supportive and nice!

Yes as long as you are polite they don’t mind. All registrars that I have met are women and all were mothers so have a lot of empathy. My friend who works at St Paul’s said he has been contacted via LinkedIn before by parents....now that is inappropriate.

They might be polite, but they will mind (without letting it show) if you are frequently harassing them, and stopping them getting on from other stuff.

Is harassing a fair word? Surely once a child has done well in very competitive exams, been invited back for interview then at the last moment (often due to subjective matters) is waitlisted the school has a duty to that family to answer all correspondence and queries regardless of how frequent they are without seeing it as harassment?

Does anyone know if the waiting list for Kings 8+ moved this year?

But fundamentally each school has a fixed number of places. Constantly calling/emailing will do nothing to move your child up the waiting list, and it will make you come across as pushy and/or irritating. If you are going to be constantly in touch about that, then are you also going to be constantly contacting the school about other little minor things if your child gets a place, that will be running through the minds of the people who make decisions.

Some parents seem to have this idea that if you don’t get into KCs/SPS (for example) then the child has failed and is destined to a crap life and education. Which is totally not true, but it just means that in combination 30 (or however many!) children in the day in total did better when the academic results, School references, and interviews are taken into account. There will be very little actual difference between the majority of boys applying to these schools, so it will be little things that make a difference.

I think registrars just need to suck it up frankly. It's only really a 2-week window in January when admission offices become horribly busy and I'm sure phones ringing off the hook etc... But this is their job, parents are anxious and schools need to understand that. If they cannot cope with the volume of queries they should recruit temporary admin staff to assist. It got to the point where one registrar from one of the most prestigious schools in London was blatantly ignoring frantic messages from parents who had interview clashes and were desperately trying to reschedule. I find that unacceptable. In the commercial world such appalling client "service" would be inexcusable and the individual(s) involved would be sacked.

All these schools charge a FORTUNE in fees to parents and should be a bit more mindful that parents are potential clients and deserve a little bit more courtesy.

User4444 - fingers crossed for you. Keep it at, I really hope you get the school your son wants having come so far in the process. Well done to him! On Wednesday last week all the schools were chasing the few remaining parents who had not yet delivered acceptance forms. All warned parents they would move straight to the waiting list immediately after noon on Thursday. If a parent takes it right up to the wire before accepting a place you just know it's because they don't actually want it as first choice and are holding out for another school that they may have been waitlisted at.

Of course everyone rushed to secure a school before the deadline but if their first choice comes through later they'll take it and forego deposits. In other words don't assume this is over. The waiting list is fluid and there will be some families offered places over the weeks and months to come. Stay strong!

user1490307837, i know exactly which school you were referring to, yes, a "prestige" school!

I agree with User149.. the waiting lists often continues to move after the deadline date and schools need to remember they need parents to put bums on seats just as parents need them to offer a place. Waitlisted families can be a very important plug between offers and acceptances.

Trinity, do you work in the admissions office of a school? I don’t imagine it is much fun to be at the receiving end of constant phone calls. Perhaps you should consider sending daily update emails to parents after offers/waiting lists go out to manage the onslaught? I think parents mostly just want to know if the waiting list is moving and where their child stands.

“ If you are going to be constantly in touch about that, then are you also going to be constantly contacting the school about other little minor things if your child gets a place, that will be running through the minds of the people who make decisions.”

Trinity at £20K per year in fees alone, it is shameful if schools actively try to avoid children with parents they fear might be demanding!

User4444 I don’t know whether the 8+ waiting list at Kings moved bit it definitely moved for 7+ boys.

Perhaps I am naive, but I really don't understand the point of frequently contacting the admissions officer if one's child is on a wait list - why? If the list moves, then the school will decide based on the existing pool and contact the highest candidate. What good will frequently contacting the registrar really do?

This idea that the parent is a customer and needs to be treated as one is one which does not sit well with me, despite me being American. I had a son on a waitlist, never contacted the registrar and when a spot opened up, received a call from the Head. No frantic daily calls, just accepted that if a spot opened up, then great - if not, we were going to go ahead with Plan B.

Yes, it is not great dealing with uncertainty, but that is life and we cannot always strong-arm our way to getting what we want. That, however, does not mean that either party, parent or school, should not forget the rules of common courtesy in the war they relate to the other.

Parkavenue, I disagree as I know of several parents who make life continuously difficult for staff and the administration if things do not occur as they like. I can imagine that the school, if they have the choice, would prefer not to deal with parents constantly threatening the administration if their childs does not not get XYZ and challenging the school on minor issues. it is precisely the attitude that "you will do as I wish because I am paying a heap of money for it" which is disturbing to me and, I feel, wrong in an educational setting. I am not saying that schools have the right to act cavalierly, just that some parents really need to think about what example they are setting with such attitudes.

Mominatrix, it's good for you that you got a positive outcome from a waitlist situation but I think you are being a little naive if you assume the list is a straight line and schools simply go according to the order of the list with no external influences whatsoever.

The waiting list is fluid - made up of a (usually) small pool of candidates school can dip into as and when they need to. Of course there will be strong candidates and marginal candidates within that pool but other factors also count eg who seems keen and who isn't.

I hope I didn't suggest in my post that each parent constantly ringing the admissions office for no good reason is a sensible approach. The fact it most parents waitlisted at one school often have offers elsewhere and are being pressured to accept. Without knowing how the waiting list is moving as the days go by and where you stack up in that list it is difficult to make a decision on what to do.

I don't think it is a big ask for admissions offices to be receptive to queries at this time. As I said, it is a very small window of time that the situation seems frantic. Most of the rest of the year things just tick along...

Like everything this is about getting the balance right. If you’re going to constantly call school offices obviously it will get annoying. Courteous emails enquiring about the status of your child’s admission or as one parent mentions above to resolve exam/interview clashes demand an answer and if a persistent parent is subsequently labelled a problem that’s just disappointing.

When I found myself in that situation I sent carefully worded emails to registrars instead of call them. The latter can be too confrontational. E-mails they can answer at the time of day to suit. Simply ignoring parents cannot be excused.