A thread for 8+ Westminster, St Paul's, Sussex House, Kings etc

[user8957365]

Merry Christmas!
Just the small matter of getting through the 8+ exams and wondered if there are other parents out there who might be interested in joining this thread.
Did any of your sons sit Kings in December? How did they find it? Apparently only 14 places going - gulp!
How are you preparing for St Paul's etc? If they are parents who have already been through the process and can offer any advice it will be very gratefully received.
Cheers

[OptimysticMom]

Thank you Nestess and jeanne16 for your kind responses. Interestingly, the book my son has chosen (& so thoroughly enjoyed- took him ages to complete: not an avid reader) is simple, yet not as easy as it appears! I'm the one who's been trying to convince him to take something smaller/easier!
Nestess good luck to your LO, do let us know how it goes. (Hobbies & maths questions will be asked.)

[jeanne16]

It is important for your DS to take a book he has read and enjoyed. I say this because parents sometimes feel the DC needs to take a book that is harder and ‘more impressive ‘ to the school. Sometimes they arrive with a book and on discussion it becomes clear they didn’t fully understand it, so it was clearly chosen by the parents.

[Nestess]

Do not worry. We are going back on Monday for an interview for the 7+ (they must have 7 and 8 the same day) and we have to bring a book too. Everybody does. I do not know what they will ask, I do not know what book to take. Maybe the book is just to get a conversation going?

[OptimysticMom]

(Already tried creating a new thread for this but no response so far, hence resorting to this old one! Apologies!)
Wondering those who have been through the process of 8+ interviews in recent years, if you could please shed some light on what we should expect of it? DS (summer born) has been invited to WUS, and has been asked to bring along a recent book he enjoyed. (Comprehension did not go well at all, hence perhaps book request??) What do they ask the child as someone mentioned they are "very" thorough? Do they eventually take Summer borns, whose comprehension is not a strength. He is, however, a 'gifted' mathematician (like many other candidates at the school). Any help, tips, advice please would go a long way. TIA

[User223344]

User4444 the waiting list is definitely still moving even after the acceptance deadline so don’t give up complete hope. Since schools reopened after half term I know one boy who has had their place at Kings confirmed (7+) and another for Sussex House (8+). I would call or email the school every couple of weeks do they know you are still keen.

[User44444]

Thanks 1dadhere. Kings also sounds well balanced once you’re in despite all the hype about the school having too much pressure.

[1Dadhere]

Hi, in terms of an answer to the earlier qn about homework amount at Kings Jr School - my son is there at the moment and he has on average about 30 mins a day of hw, and interestingly very little / none during half-term or longer holidays. It's quite rare that he'll spend more than an hour in the evenings on hw. In my 2 years of experience at KCJS, the homework amount is quite light. Will likely ramp up in later years. I've found that the school strongly recognises that childhood is very temporary and genuinely aims to maintain a balance between fun and schoolwork.

[Onebusymother1]

User44444 I am wondering if we are at the same school 😀
I agree with what you’ve written but also think the same could be said of Kings Junior.
Avoid the 11+ if you can. Horrid process can have 1,000 applicants in some schools.

[User44444]

Mamajabon I agree. My son is at a London pre prep that sends a lot boys to WU every year. Certainly for this year’s 8+ and the year before WU have not picked the most brilliant mathematicians. They seem to be looking for something else - of course boys must hit a certain mark in maths to be considered but just as important, looking at the boys who I know got in, is that they scored well in English. But there are also some boys who are very brilliant at English but didn’t get in. The current head is probably less of a risk taker than previous heads - as he doesn’t seem keen on boys who showed utter brilliance in any area if they didn’t also hit the right mark in all papers. It was more important that they ticked every box to a certain level even if boy wasn’t particularly brilliant. In other words all rounders, not necessarily the brightest got in. If your boy is musical that also seemed to have helped this year. This is not exactly what I thought WU was about but perhaps the focus of the Under school is changing as Mamajabon suggests. Come 11+ and 13+ I’m sure boys will have to show some kind of brilliance to be offered places as the Great School will be more involved in the selection process - more scrutiny, more candidates and more competition. I don’t fancy our chances muuch!

Whitecurrants the workload sounds reasonable. Not as pressured as I would have assumed. Anyone know what things are like at Kings in terms of homework and workloads?

[Whitecurrants]

Crombie, although not all WUS boys end up at Westminster, there is an expectation that the vast majority will be able to. If it looks as though this could be a problem the school attempts to identify this sooner rather than later and agree a strategy with the family. Year four homework is in the region of 30 mins a night, rising to 90 in year 8. The year six pretest involves some extra preparation but not a huge amount. If a boy gets a conditional offer after the pretest (again, most do), then it is highly unlikely (although not impossible) that he will fail at 13+.

[Mamajabon]

Yes this thread will go on for long time every year the 4+ 7+ 8+ threads are very long.
poster user1485805085 I don’t think WU picks less maths boys unless things have changed a lot - when my son sat 7+ only exceptional mathematicians, some are gifted got WUS but I have heard other people say it is changing direction and in recently English is more important. Maybe it’s true we never know which stories are true.

[User44444]

WOw, I think this thread will just run and run forever.

Reading the last few posts I think it’s slightly ridiculous you can have a Mum slating the selection process for SPJ or WU just because their son didn’t get in one of the schools but got the other! Both are exceptional schools.

Westminster have mandatory 13+ exams for all boys applying to the Great School whether they’re coming from WU or another prep. The 13+ process starts in year 6 with pretests. For WU candidates there is Saturday school to get everyone up to speed for 13+ for subjects like Latin and French. If you’re expecting a smooth entry into the senior school I wouldn’t assume that’s the case but I should think there must be priority given to boys from WU compared to external candidates. At 7 or 8 years it must be difficult to pick boys who can transfer seamlessly into the Great School though. If your boy isn’t quite able to make it I’m sure you’ll be given very early warnings so you can look at other school options. I’ve heard it said many times that the boys who join at 11+ do a lot better and generally, but not always are of higher ability, because entrance exams at that level is more complex and more effective at identifying strong candidates than 7/8+ exams.

[hhks]

I think WUS has 30min per night homework + reading every night for year 4 and it increases with age. I don't think they need to do 11+, but not exactly sure how the entry to WS work. I am also keen to find out.

I'm not saying the boys are not bright, in fact I believe they are all bright kids who have worked very hard last year to achieve this. There's little point to compare who is brighter at this young age. I believe the boys on RL are as good as those with firm offers. I have a friend whose boy got into spj through RL a few years ago, and he is absolutely thriving there.

[Crombie22]

Sorry, I don’t know for sure if Kings and other waiting lists moved. Just going on hearsay. User148 and Hhks some interested views you’ve traded. I think all these top schools ultimately want bright boys but each has slightly different priorities?

I need to spend the next few months getting to know WU as hadn’t actually done much research before the exams!. Rowingthebigboat, Hhks and others familiar with WU just how academically intense is it? Eg how much homework each evening? SPJ said they deliberately keep homework minimal, for the weekends only. Also are boys expected to work very hard for 11+ pretests and 13+ even if they intend to remain at Westminster? I don’t want yet more exams in just a few years.

[hhks]

Yes, it is the "perform" on the day. I know I number of boys who failed to get any offer last year in 7+ and did exceptionally this year in 8+. It's the same bright or not so bright boy. If it's anyone to blame, I think it's the person behind them doing the teaching.

[user1485805085]

The “insider information” comes from the super tutors out there, many of whom know the key people at these schools or previously even taught at them, and charge a bomb to coach children. As most boys will apply to all the top schools, not just one, the effect of any insider knowlege if indeed it exists will be felt within all the schools not just one. I do have a problem with how some posters convince themselves that their child didn’t get into a particular school because of all sorts of reasons other than the most obvious - that the child simply didn’t perform strongly enough to be offered. My son did not get offers to all the schools we applied to and I just took it on the chin, albeit disappointed.

[hhks]

I understand that parents wanted to believe the selection process is all fair and their boys selected are the brightest. But we also need to know life is long and the 7+8+ exam is largely dependent on how their parents, especially mother, prepared them. Also largely dependent on luck. Some school has insider information so that they outperform others by so much.
It's very blunt to brand a 7 or 8 year boy tier 2. There are more bright boys than the top schools can take, even they didn't go to the top 3, it doesn't mean they are second tier.

[user1485805085]

All the schools - SPJ, Kings, WU cut some slack for state school children so it’s not appropriate to single out SPJ for this. You made it sound like there is some sort of bias against specific pre prep schools. Not true. SPJ simply want the brightest boys, especially very strong mathematical and reasoning brains because their curriculum is more towards that direction. Even in year 3 and 4 boys use individual iPads in class. The Head made it clear at open day she did not care at all about handwriting whereas schools like Kings and WU make a bigger deal out of writing. The 22 offers per class is just a rumour not set in stone depends on the year and how things pan out. All the schools over offer even WU with only One class intake and Kings with 14 places over offered.
My take - a very clever boy with exceptional maths and reasoning ability will get SPJ. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories.

[hhks]

user1485805085, apparently during interview the HM told one of the parents the boys selected for interview were not all top, say 80, ranked in the exams. Unless the parents lied, and I don't see the point why would they. And it's not secret that state school children will have some advantage if scores are very close, same as summer boys. Also it's not secret that spj makes 22 offers for each class. Heard from a number of parents this year.

[user1485805085]

Crombie are you sure the waiting list moved at Kings (8+) ? I was told on 2nd Feb the day after acceptance deadline that the list hadn’t moved but I personally know of 7+ boys offered Kings from the waiting list.
I really don’t think your son was waitlisted at SPJ because he was loud! That would only count against him if he was obnoxious and destructive in class but clearly not the case. He sounds like a happy lively boy to me!

Roserverdvelvet I agree with everything you have written.

Hhks I am sorry but I think you’ve written a load of rubbish. SPJ is one of the most academic schools in the UK if not London. What has sport, race and “preprep names” got to do with their selection process? If they didn’t want to accept boys due to any of that sort of criteria why would they even bother inviting them for interview? They are picking boys at 7 or 8 years with the intellectual ability to go the distance to A Levels hence they want the very brightest boys. Period. Kings is the same. WU can afford to be a bit more flexible as everyone has to sit the 13+ for entry into the Great School and they can recalibrate talent again then. It is surprising but possible that a boy ranked 20th after the exams at SPJ ended up with no offer. Said boy, if indeed he is real and not fabricated, probably was heavily coached for the exams and either interviewed badly or couldn’t cope with the assessments at interview day. SPJ is known to have the toughest reasoning papers in town, harder than Kings and WU, designed to pick out the most innately cleverest boys; their interview process is also quick but challenging eg maths puzzles at both 7+ and 8+ which require boys to think on their feet, throws many boys who have done well in written exams often on the back coaching but may not be innately very clever.

Another point I would make for 7+ this year - SPJ added an extra class and brought forward offers to December like Kings taking 54 boys (the 66 mentioned above is plucked from the skies, of course they over offer but no one knows for sure by how many). Crucially however offer letters went out in December. Rather sneaky of SPJ and not entirely ethical some would say! Parents of very clever boys who already got offers decided not to bother sitting WU but enjoy a stress free Christmas instead. So WUS have ended up picking many 2nd tier boys and SPJ likely got the best of the lot. Not sure if this had implications for the 8+ but doesn’t matter much because WU have intakes at 11+ and 13+ when their brightest sparks join.

[giardiniera]

A boy who comes 20th in the papers - it's clearly his place to lose at interview. Surprised anyone would think otherwise.

[hhks]

Crombie22, I recently learned that a 7+ boy ranked 20+ in spj did not receive an offer, considering spj is offering 66 places at 7+. So I do believe spj is not just looking at academic performance, maybe other factors, personality, sports, interview, state education, preprep school names, family background, nationality, race, who knows.

[Roseredvelvet]

Crombie22 it's a difficult situation to be in, all 3 schools are excellent and your son is obviously a very bright boy. I think schools look for a mix of personalities to balance the classes out. Ds is not a quiet boy, In his present school he's the class joker, sociable and kind but quite a compliant child. He's going to SPJ. A friend of his sat the 7+ last year and got offers from KGS & WUS despite doing really well in the exam he didn't receive an offer from SPJ (1st choice). He is thriving at WUS. Honestly I think it's a bit of a lottery sometimes!

[Crombie22]

Wish I found this community last month when I was biting my nails raw! Very interesting comments here. We have accepted a place at WUS, waitlisted at both SPJ and Kings. WUS wasn’t one of our top choices, we sat the exams on a whim only as practice run for SPJ. Funny how things turn out!
We are desperate to get either SPJ or Kings, very disappointed to be waitlisted at both. I believe the waiting list moved at both schools but frustratingly not for us. SPJ is the biggest shock. At the parents meeting the Head told us my son was in the top 30 of candidates. As there are 36 places going we walked away feeling he had a place secure. I wonder what happened on the interview day. My son’s strongest subject is maths, he is very bright in a practical kind of way, loves getting stuck into things like coding. Loved the ICT room at SPJ. Also very sporty and active, needs space to run around, would rather spend his time after school doing sport than homework. I have a lot of respect for WUS, the Head and all the staff I met but just can’t see my son there.
Trying to figure out why SPJ waitlisted him and thinking it may be due to my son having a loud personality. Anyone agree with that? Someone up the thread said SPJ only wanted the quiet boys this year and I can see how that would go against my son. He can come across as an overpowering chatterbox but he’s the sweetest, gentleness boy.
Grateful we have a top school secured but if either Kings or SPJ were to offer a place we would accept.

[Rowingthebigboat]

I know from various family friends and younger siblings of my son’s friends that the 7+ and 8+ waiting lists definitely moved at all 4 schools mentioned. Hard to tell by how many exactly but Usually just a couple of places for WUS, SPJ and KCS. I think Sussex House possibly have more flexibility as it tends to be wanted by mainly Chelsea local families which lowers their applicant numbers.
Drinkingcoffee do you have another school to go to? You might be better off to try and move on to give you some closure.
That said, there is always a last minute movement in offers list. Last year a 7+ boy turned up in September at SPJ - having been offered a place a few days prior. He was all set to go to KCS then got the call! Also at WU, not for 7|8+ but higher up the school, we’ve had boys not turn up in September! In these situations schools recognize they cannot leave a seat empty (think of the lost revenue and reputarional impact on the school),