Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

Legal responsibility of teachers

111 replies

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 17:03

Are teachers legally responsible for a child while they are in their care? My son's school let him leave school unaccompanied (he's 6, yr 2). They say that because the teacher had told the class at the beginning of the year to wait with the teacher until a parent/guardian arrived, then they had discharged their duty of care and so hadn't done anything wrong. It was my son's fault for either not being aware of what he was supposed to do or disobeying it (he says he didn't know he was supposed to stay with the teacher).

Does anybody know what the legal position is please? Many thanks

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

craigglen · 08/12/2017 20:26

My 6 year old DGC has known since reception that she shouldn't leave school without the adult who is collecting her. I can't believe that your son doesn't know this. You need to be talking to your DS, not blaming the school.

I really don't know why anyone would be a teacher nowadays!

wowbutter · 08/12/2017 20:39

Sorry, but your husband should have been in that hard when the doors opened.
Your child should know towait in the yard until a parent appears.
In every school I have worked at, from reception up, they open the doors, the children go, and the instruction is to come back if they do not have a parent present.
Yes, the teachers have a duty of care, but at the end of the day, they are also your responsibility.
One person is trying to get thirty children into their parents waiting arms. Be there in time next time.
Teach your child, stop absolving responsibility.

CotswoldStrife · 08/12/2017 20:55

At that age at my DD's school, children were also handed over to parents. I would not be happy with my child being let out without them seeing me and we used to have to send a note if someone else was picking them up or they were going home for tea with another child.

The fact that the school's gut reaction was to get defensive is also a bit worrying - I'd be concerned about that. You want them to think about what went wrong in this instance and learn from it.

catkind · 08/12/2017 20:58

In infants children were only let out once teacher had seen the parent. When DS was in Y3 I had to explicitly give permission for him to be let out on his own so that he could come round to the reception entrance where I was meeting DD. I didn't want to keep his teacher waiting every day (usually plenty more than 4 minutes!) by the time I'd got DD and got back to the junior door.

So don't know about technical legality, but it wouldn't happen at our school. Sounds like a pretty chaotic system.

user789653241 · 08/12/2017 21:28

Same here. Up to yr2, children are only released out of door once TA/teacher has seen parents/carer at our school. So it won't happen at our school either.
I don't know about the legality either, but system may need looking into.

RestingGrinchFace · 08/12/2017 21:32

They have absolutely not discharged their duty-six year olds can't be trusted to always follow this instruction. Report them to ofstead.

AppleTrayBake · 08/12/2017 21:39

Yes OP's husband shouldn't have been late and her DS shouldn't have wandered off, but the school needs to look carefully at their EOD system.

Home time is always chaotic. The children are hyper, parents impatient, people trying to talk to you, parents sending DC back in, "where's my jumper?" "Did he eat his lunch?"...having to explain injures/ discuss behaviour, calling the same child 4 times because they're busy chatting. All while trying to remember 30+ faces, match them with the correct child and surpervise a class of children.

It's the WORST time of day.

However they need to think about how they can prevent this from happening and keep your son safe. (As do you OP)

A year 2 child just walking off and out the school is odd, the teacher wouldn't have expected him to do that. Ultimately if you as parents had been on time it wouldn't have happened.

Starlight2345 · 08/12/2017 22:01

There is fault on all sides... Your DH for been 4 minutes late..I have managed to get to school on time every day for the past 7 years.

Also your DS who absolutely should know not to leave the teacher.

But also the teacher who should not of let the child go without the site of parent collecting.

I think if you had spoke about what you want to happen instead of legal position you may of got a different response.

soapboxqueen · 08/12/2017 22:04

I agree that they shouldn't be allowing ks1 children to just go. Year 6 yes. Ks2 in general should know to stay with the teacher until they see a parent or walk home etc. Obviously this has been the procedure all year so, it can't have escaped either you or your husbands notice previously so your child should know to stay put and you should have been reinforcing this.

However, I think it's reasonable to contact the school and ask them to review their home time procedure.

You can complain to ofsted but I would be suprised if they did anything other than point you in the direction of the complaints procedure.

C0untDucku1a · 08/12/2017 22:11

Firstly, I would have been blazing at my husband for being late. Why was your husband late? What prevented him from collecting his child from school before the school day ended? Did he at least phone to let them know he was going to be late?

Secondly, i would be cross with my 6 year old for not following instructions. I have a six year old. It is crucial they follow instructions to stay safe.

Thirdly, i would be asking for a review of how the class are released, as clearly Some children need to be physically kept in a room to prevent wandering.

But it actually sounds like you want to sue the school because your husband was late?

C0untDucku1a · 08/12/2017 22:14

Op what exactly did you say to your husband? Have you actually challenged him on being late?

Ohyesiam · 08/12/2017 22:54

My oh is a teacher in a comp, I just asked him and he maintains teachers are legally responsible for pupils. This came to light recently when a nqt was failing to take the register. The head explained that my oh would be legally responsible, being house head.
Can't see it would be different in a primary .

soapboxqueen · 08/12/2017 23:07

Taking the register is a legal responsibility separate from any responsibility for the children. I think the question is at what point does the responsibility begin and end and under what circumstances.

MidniteScribbler · 09/12/2017 01:16

Oh for the love of pete! have you never been a few minutes late?!

Not when it comes to being there for my child. But then again, I also don't think that his teacher is an overpaid babysitter.

BenLui · 09/12/2017 01:44

I find this whole discussion quite bewildering.

We’re in Scotland. Apart from the nursery, all children are released into the open playground.

There’s no “handing over” and the youngest P1 kids are 4yo. This is pretty standard practice in Scotland.

No one from our school has ever gone missing or wandered off.

This is because the children know to wait for their adult and to go back to the office if no one turns up.

It’s my job to:

A) make sure my child knows what to do in any situation.
B) be on time to pick them up.

In your situation OP I would suggest that the failure of responsibility lies squarely with you and your DH as you fulfilled neither A or B.

Norestformrz · 09/12/2017 06:11

Legally teachers aren't responsible for children outside of school hours but no teacher of young children would deliberately let a young child wander off alone. Unfortunately in reality it only takes a minute distraction such as speaking to another parent for a child to slip away at busy times which is why teachers insist on children not leaving until handed over. As someone said I'm sure the teacher would be horrified this has happened.

maddiemostmerry · 09/12/2017 06:30

Tell the teacher your child cannot be trusted to understNd that he has to wait for his adult. He now needs to hold teachers hand every day until you are sure he understands the rules around waiting for an adult.

Ask the school to look at their EoD policy.

Be on time for pick up

paniconthestreetsofdreams · 09/12/2017 06:35

This is hilarious.

Op wtf

user789653241 · 09/12/2017 06:50

As some one has pointed out, I think fault lies on everyone in this situation.

As for 4 minutes late, my friend called me before pick up time(quite frantically), to inform that she may, or may not be late for pick up so if I can be there for her ds when the door opens, and inform the teacher if she was late, and wait for her in case she was late. An responsible parents do whatever they can regarding their own child's safety.
So I really question why you are so keen to find out legal responsibility of teachers, rather than yours.

fidgettt · 09/12/2017 10:12

this was why I was concerned about the culture in the school: the first response was to blame the child, to deny responsibility and not to apologise as that would have admitted responsibility.

I agree OP. I'd not want my child at a school which had that attitude.

In your situation I would write to the school (HT) and ask that they review going home procedures and inform you of the outcome.

Yes, do this. I'd be writing to OFSTED too. I'd suggest a handing over policy of teacher stands in the doorway greeting parents while DC all sitting at desks. DC are then called up to the door one by one. This prevents a massive gaggle of kids where one could slip out.

Twofishfingers · 09/12/2017 10:25

I just don't understand OP why you have to go directly to this legal language. Just speak to the school, tell them what happened. You don't need to show up with your lawyer, legal documents and words in Latin.

Spottytop1 · 09/12/2017 10:30

It doesn't need to go to Ofsted, just speak/write to the school and if you aren't happy with their response follow the complaints procedure which would be a complaint to governors and if still not happy LA safeguarding.

OutComeTheWolves · 09/12/2017 10:36

If every home time they follow the same routine and he's already been in school a few years, I don't really understand how he didn't know to stay with the teacher.

I'd say now he knows not to just walk off, the matter has been dealt with.

Ellle · 09/12/2017 10:50

The matter has been dealt with but only with OP's child. I'm sure she will make sure this does not happen again to her child.

But what is to guarantee that it will not happen again in future with a different child and with a different outcome? As the school seems so intent on placing all the blame on the OP for being late and consider they didn't do anything wrong and therefore there is no need to change the system they currently have?

buggerthebotox · 09/12/2017 11:17

The school did not do anything "wrong" though. They had procedures, and they followed them. The child slipped past, against instructions. There was no adult there to alert teacher to missing child.

Maybe the policy and procedures could be better, and tighter. But real life gets in the way. There was no harm done. Parents are sometimes late. Teachers are not infallible.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5