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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Legal responsibility of teachers

111 replies

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 17:03

Are teachers legally responsible for a child while they are in their care? My son's school let him leave school unaccompanied (he's 6, yr 2). They say that because the teacher had told the class at the beginning of the year to wait with the teacher until a parent/guardian arrived, then they had discharged their duty of care and so hadn't done anything wrong. It was my son's fault for either not being aware of what he was supposed to do or disobeying it (he says he didn't know he was supposed to stay with the teacher).

Does anybody know what the legal position is please? Many thanks

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Mumof56 · 08/12/2017 18:22

It's December. 4 months of the school year have passed and your child claims not to know what is expected?

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 18:22

Marcine - glad to know you've had a chat with my son about this. I feel much better now. thanks

left to his own devices or did he sneak out? well, he walked away from his teacher, who was stood at the doorway, into the playground. I don't think he made any attempt to hide from her. he just went to find his dad and thought this was what happened at the end of the school day (as that was what happened every other day). except, this time he wasn't here. the teacher didn't notice him walk away from her.

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NotAgainYoda · 08/12/2017 18:22

I also think that you need to raise this in relation to the end of day procedure being a bit chaotic, whilst acknowledging that your child should not have left on his own. He must have deliberately slipped past the teacher/TA for some reason, which he should know not to do

NotAgainYoda · 08/12/2017 18:26

I say that because if they are dismissed at the door, he must have got past the adult without them seeing.

Lifechallenges · 08/12/2017 18:31

DH was late and didn't phone school or another parent so teacher assumed he was there as normal. DS walked off when she should know not to as its drummed into them. The teacher is not infalliable. She maybe assumed she'd just not seen DH but that he was there as child had walked off. She's not superhuman. Maybe be she had been collared by a parent wanting to talk to her. Maybe she lost concentration for a couple of mins as another child wanted to tell her something - who knows?
Yes mention it to school, but its not just their fault.

StaplesCorner · 08/12/2017 18:33

angsty there are education law websites that will be much more helpful, but as a previous Chair of Governors for a federation of primary schools then yes, the school has a duty of care for a child of that age. Secondary school it gets less clear, but at that age, much as everyone might want to blame the child, you don't get to do that - because he is a CHILD.

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 18:34

NotAgainYoda - that's not really the system. The kids are allowed to come out and stand around the teacher so there's no physical barrier stopping them from leaving. It relies on the kids staying put rather than the teacher being a gate keeper. So he didn't slip past the teacher; the kids just sort of come out and, mostly, take themselves off to their parent. So I think our son thought the system was that the kids come out into the playground and go and find their parent themselves. I can see why he might have thought that was the system. When he couldn't see his dad, he want to look for him.

Other teachers are much more rigorous and take greater control, physically stopping the kids from leaving (by standing in the doorway) until the teacher has seen the parent.

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StaplesCorner · 08/12/2017 18:36

Oh and in the schools I was in, there would have been a written review of what happened and it would be kept on file. But mostly, the teacher in question would have been beside himself/herself with worry and the head would have been out on the playground/at the door helping. The first part is called safeguarding, the second is called being a caring professional.

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 18:38

Thanks StaplesCorner - I get the impression that the legal standing is somewhat different to popular perception...

And I do sympathise with the teacher here, once the terror passed. releasing 30 kids to parents is not easy. doing anything with 30 kids is not easy. her first response was to blame my son (as did the head teacher) but she later apologised (unlike the head), which I accepted and am happy with. but I would like to know what the legal position is.

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NotAgainYoda · 08/12/2017 18:39

I see. Then I'd definitely suggest a review.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 08/12/2017 18:41

How could he get to Year 2 without knowing he has to wait in the yard until his parent arrived?! Where was he actually going when he went through the gate by himself, was he attempting to walk home?
I love the preciseness of four minutes late, btw. Very, very unlikely that the entire class had been dismissed four minutes after the bell went.

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 18:43

Staples - this was why I was concerned about the culture in the school: the first response was to blame the child, to deny responsibility and not to apologise as that would have admitted responsibility. I had thought the first response would have been: we're very sorry; something has clearly gone wrong; I will make sure it doesn't happen again. instead I got a lot of what I got here: it's your son's fault (and by implication, my fault for not having properly educated him though, to be fair, I assumed that the teacher would make sure my son was safe and not wandering into traffic). I know better now.

none of the teachers involved seemed that worried. it was only when I wanted to know what had happened that people started to pay attention (when they thought I was going to complain or go to Ofsted or lord knows what). I had hoped my kid's safety would have been the first priority, not avoiding a complaint or litigation.

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PaintingByNumbers · 08/12/2017 18:45

Litigation

Bingo

Mumof56 · 08/12/2017 18:45

doing anything with 30 kids is not easy

The teacher had 30 children to manage, you had 1

Migraleve · 08/12/2017 18:46

Why have you not told your child if no one is there (playground) to go back in to school? That's the very first thing I taught mine when they started school!

DonkeyOaty · 08/12/2017 18:48

Have a dig around the schools website for policies - I'm hoping there'll be some blah about releasing children in accordance with [insert guidance here] in it somewhere that you can read up on. Sorry to be so woolly. V tired.

sirfredfredgeorge · 08/12/2017 18:48

Even if she saw him intentionally walk off, I'm sure the policy is not to chase, I've never seen a school policy where absconding pupils are chased.

It is your sons fault that he wondered off, it could be that there could be more reminding, but given that he's not wondered off in more than 2 years, it's not too surprising that it doesn't happen.

Letseatgrandma · 08/12/2017 18:49

because the teacher had told the class at the beginning of the year to wait with the teacher until a parent/guardian arrived

I bet anything that the teacher hasn’t just said that once at the beginning of the year. I bet that has been said repeatedly by many many adults ever since your child has started at that school.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 08/12/2017 18:52

What exactly would you say to Ofsted? Your Year 2 child didn't understand that he wasn't supposed to mosey out the gate by himself, and he did this because the collecting parent was late?

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 18:53

mumof56. when i'm looking after my kids, I know where they are. the teacher didn't. I win.

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Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 08/12/2017 18:56

You win? You weren't there. Neither was his Dad. One of you should have been

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 18:59

I'm not planning on complaining to Ofsted but since you asked...

the school and teachers have a duty of care equivalent to that of reasonably prudent parent (as per the Children's Act 1989). They failed to discharge this duty of care sufficiently as they allowed a child to be placed in danger. Teachers are in loco parentis (as per common law) until they hand over responsibility for the child to the parent/guardian. As such, they are legally responsible for the child's welfare. Allowing a child to leave school premises unaccompanied constitutes a failure to act as a reasonably prudent parent would and therefore constitutes a failure of a teacher's duty of care.

how about that?

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Ca55andraMortmain · 08/12/2017 19:00

This has happened to me as a teacher before. The child pointed into the playground and walked away. The playground was full of adults and kids and I just assumed that he had pointed at his adult. He hadn't seen anyone and, on not finding his parent, decided to walk home. I felt absolutely dreadful about it and very guilty. I should have looked closer to see he was really going to his adult, but at the same time my HT agreed that it was reasonable to assume that by the end of his second year at school he knew that he needed to wait until he actually saw the person who was collecting him and to come back to me if he couldn't find them. No harm was done in the end and thankfully his parents agreed that he shouldn't have left without an adult and didn't start berating me about my legal responsibilities and phoning Ofsted about what was a genuine mistake (recognising that I felt awful about it).

Letseatgrandma · 08/12/2017 19:01

I win

WTF?

You win nothing. Your child nearly ended up in the road because his parents were late collecting (and didn’t let anyone know) and he didn’t do as he was told. I can only see losers here, not winners.

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 19:01

Oh for the love of pete! have you never been a few minutes late?!

regardless of that, is it acceptable that a child is placed in danger as a result?! do you seriously think it is ok for a 6 year old to be responsible for his own safety? should we be giving him a set of knives for Christmas and some lighter fluid?! I'll tell him to be careful...

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