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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Legal responsibility of teachers

111 replies

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 17:03

Are teachers legally responsible for a child while they are in their care? My son's school let him leave school unaccompanied (he's 6, yr 2). They say that because the teacher had told the class at the beginning of the year to wait with the teacher until a parent/guardian arrived, then they had discharged their duty of care and so hadn't done anything wrong. It was my son's fault for either not being aware of what he was supposed to do or disobeying it (he says he didn't know he was supposed to stay with the teacher).

Does anybody know what the legal position is please? Many thanks

OP posts:

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Valerrie · 08/12/2017 19:02

But they didn't "allow him to leave", he snuck off and his parent wasn't there.

Mumof56 · 08/12/2017 19:03

mumof56. when i'm looking after my kids, I know where they are. the teacher didn't. I win

No. When the school bell goes, It is your responsability to be there to collect your child. You weren't there, you don't win

junebirthdaygirl · 08/12/2017 19:06

You would need to ask yoyrself if there was any occasion your ds would wander off on you eg in a shopping centre . Then you would see that being a parent doesnt gaurantee total safety at all times.
Also your dh being late was not a responsible parent so if she only has to match up to him she is ok.
You say her first reaction was to cover her back but your first question was is she legally responsible. I would not take your ds on a school trip or outing as l couldnt trust him to stay with the group.

WitchesHatRim · 08/12/2017 19:07

mumof56. when i'm looking after my kids, I know where they are. the teacher didn't. I win.

WTF do you mean 'you win'.

Migraleve · 08/12/2017 19:07

angsty

How appropriate!

You are sounding more and more desperate by the post. Not to mention really silly!

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 19:07

I didn't berate the teachers involved nor am I actually involving Ofsted. I would like a policy that keeps children safe and doesn't place teachers in an untenable position. I don't think it's a great system to release all the kids at once, where they wonder into the playground and cannot be properly monitored. I don't think that's the teacher's fault; I think it's a poor system and one that has not been properly risk assessed. as a teacher, that is not your responsibility; it's the head's. if I were you, i'd ask why you were placed in that position in the first place

OP posts:

WitchesHatRim · 08/12/2017 19:09

Well as a parent make sure you are there on time or notify the school you won't be.

sirfredfredgeorge · 08/12/2017 19:13

A reasonably prudent parent would certainly not be expecting their 6 year old kid to just wonder off, I have never seen reins on 6 year old, and often see them well away from any adult.

It is normal for 6 year olds to be free to choose to disobey their adults and wonder off.

And yes, you should be able to give a 6 year old access to knives and expect them to not endanger themselves, only very, very light supervision should be required.

Letseatgrandma · 08/12/2017 19:16

I don't think it's a great system to release all the kids at once, where they wonder into the playground

What would you prefer?

Valerrie · 08/12/2017 19:16

I wonder what he was wondering.

FoxesSitOnBoxes · 08/12/2017 19:16

This is totally crazy. You are focused on proving some legal point with the school and “winning” some bizarre metaphorical competition when really you should be focussed on the fact that your child doesn’t know that they have to tell their teacher if they don’t see their parent and not just wander off. “winning” this game doesn’t actually win anything if your child doesn’t know how to keep himself safe

sirfredfredgeorge · 08/12/2017 19:17

Where his dad was probably Valerrie...

Spottytop1 · 08/12/2017 19:21

In every school I have worked at KS1 pupils cannot leave the school until a parent or carer is seen. Usually the children are called by name and 'handed over' to ensure safety.

Valerrie · 08/12/2017 19:23

@sirfredfredgeorge

leghoul · 08/12/2017 19:23

I'd be really concerned if my 6 year old was allowed out of school without a parent being seen to be there.
The school have a duty of care and this shouldn't even be possible.

Love51 · 08/12/2017 19:25

My kid managed to briefly be missing when after school club picked her up. I was cross with asc, not with school. Not really with my child, tbh, first term of reception. Asc invested in some hi viz jackets after that, they had to show Ofsted they had a response! Your DH was the one who wasn't where he should have been, but infant aged children should surely only be released to an adult. I'm usually outside the reception class (behind a low fence) waiting for the little one, and y1 is held onto until I specifically ask for her - they can see me but wouldn't let her go until I say they can let her walk to me (all on school premises but reception classes are fenced in). There is usually an age from which schools release children without an adult (y4 Ime). I'd write and ask if they are reviewing their procedures in light of your son having left the premises without an adult.

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 19:33

Thanks to those of you have gave useful information.

I have to collect 2 kids at the same school at 2 different exits, at the same time, so I have to rely on the teachers a lot. I don't think that's unusual.

yes, my 6 year old should probably have a better idea of how to keep himself safe. but the school should also know how to keep him safe and they are, after all, the grown ups. I don't think that's much of a metaphysical debate.

and I didn't want to know the legal situation because I want to sue or complain or do anything like that. I just wanted to know. I don't want anyone punished or berated. I just want my kids to be safe. maybe that involves a system that a lot of people have mentioned here: that teachers only release kids to parents/guardians when they actually arrive.

everybody makes mistakes: teachers, parents, mumsnet posters...

OP posts:

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 19:35

oh Christ metaphorical, not metaphysical

OP posts:

FruitCider · 08/12/2017 19:43

OP whilst the teacher could make improvements, you seem to be discharging you and your husbands responsibility to notify the school if you will be late. That is a failure on both of your parts. Had the teacher known you were going to be late, they could have ensured your son did not leave.

nuttyknitter · 08/12/2017 19:44

I spent forty years working in primary schools and I'm appalled that this could have happened. I would never have dismissed a KS1 child without visually noting that they were being collected by the usual responsible adult. This is a serious safeguarding breach and the school need to let you know how they're going to stop it happening in future.

Original poster

angstybaby · 08/12/2017 19:48

fruitcider: he was 4 mins late, as already stated. had it been more, he probably would have phoned. there were still kids being released. his class just got out really early that day. not sure how it was a failure on my part...

but I didn't really want to know what everyone's personal opinion was; I wanted to know the legal position.

OP posts:

Ellle · 08/12/2017 20:00

4 minutes is not really late. At least not at my sons' school. I've never had to call to say I'm going to be 4 minutes late. It usually takes about 5 minutes to dismiss all the children in the class so it wouldn't be noticeable.

I can understand the position of the teacher and why this happened, but I think you are right to want to use this as an opportunity to get the school to review the system they currently have, do a new risk assessment and come up with solutions so that it doesn't happen again in the future with another child. Just the same as you are probably going to do with your son (have a chat with him about it, get it to understand why he needs to stay with the teacher unless he can actually see his adult there to collect him) so he doesn't do it again.

At my sons' school they have the system where the teacher is on the doorway calling the children that she can see the parents are there. The children have to stay seating in their place at the tables until their name is called. They also have the caretaker at the main gate checking that children are leaving accompanied with their adult.

NotAgainYoda · 08/12/2017 20:04

I think that you wanting to know the legal position is a bit strange. You have taken up a confrontational position in doing that here. So I am wondering whether you took up, and have taken up a confrontational position in the past with the school and they have responded in kind

I do think you have a point - that the end-of-day procedure does need to be reviewed and possibly firmed up

ThunderboltsLightning · 08/12/2017 20:15

I hope they do review the policy as he could have been run over or got upset if his dad hadn't come across him. My ds isn't primary age yet but at least at KS2 i'd expect him to be more supervised leaving school than that. With 60 children it'd be very difficult indeed for a teacher to keep an eye on all of them, presumably with parents trying to catch a word too.

Your son does need to understand a bit more about keeping safe though. Finding a safe person to ask for help, in this case a member of school staff should have been his next logical step, not to wander off to find daddy.

TeenTimesTwo · 08/12/2017 20:20

OP. In your situation I would write to the school (HT) and ask that they review going home procedures and inform you of the outcome.
Stress you have now told/reminded your child that if for any reason you aren't there they must return to their teacher, not leave without you, so you don't expect there to be an issue with your child again, but you are concerned for other children.
Personally, for going home procedures in y2, I would expect to be at minimum child tells teacher they have spotted their parent.

I think this was a mess up by all of you.

School should have better releasing procedures
You should have told your child what to do if you were ever late
Your DH shouldn't have been late

If any one of these had been OK there wouldn't have been an issue.

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