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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Ahhhhhh... Why do Teachers do this?

118 replies

User998877 · 05/12/2017 16:50

Ds (Y5) is a child that is both academic and good at sports, sits on tops tables for Maths/Literacy and is in most of the school sports teams. This is not a boast by any means as despite his capabilities he struggles terribly with his self esteem, always has. He is better than he was as I've worked tirelessly at home to help him with this.

He is popular pupil, got voted for school council etc by his peers and the head promotes him as a role model for the school. Yet one comment can bring him tumbling down so fast, for example tonight he has come home very upset as his CT told him to move from the top table to another one... no explanation, just told him to sit at the other table, which ds did without question.

This is a new teacher to the school and I've had very little interaction with him, I don't take issue with ds being moved as such, there could be many reasons why he has done this but surely ds deserves an explanation as to why he's being moved.

I've now got a ds who's insisting that he must be crap at reading (he's not BTW) as why else would he be moved.. I'm tempted to go in before work and have a word or am I overreacting?

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PaleAzureofSummer · 06/12/2017 09:10

Sounds like he'd struggle a lot with a selective secondary where he wouldn't always be top at everything

scottishclive · 06/12/2017 13:47

Its not the same issue, but its quite annoying when teachers refuse to be more clear about a child's level in the classroom. the best we can get is that he is making progress, when we want to see roughly where he is so we can decide how much additional work he needs at home to improve. This is not because we want him to be top of the class, but that he is in support groups so we are trying to support him at home. Understanding more would mean we know what to focus on and if the extra effort at home in sinking in.

I dont want to compare him directly to his peers, but just know how much effort we need to get him into the middle of the pack.

sirfredfredgeorge · 06/12/2017 14:10

scottishclive but there is no point knowing where a child is in the class, the chance of the class being representative is extremely slim.

The standardised tests available at KS1 and KS2 and the available curriculum should make it pretty easy to identify roughly where your kid is.

If your child doesn't already know their current learning targets to focus on, get them or you to ask the teacher, that's what would help, rather than trying to guess what it might be from how you happen to compare to a few other kids in the class.

mrsBeverleyGoldberg · 06/12/2017 14:27

Your attitude stinks. Maybe he's been moved because he needs more support in a particular area! Honestly he's at school to learn not feel like he's better than everyone else in his class. Why can't you just tell him that it's okay not to be on the top table all the time? He needs to know that it's okay to need extra help sometimes as this is what learning is.

scottishclive · 06/12/2017 14:37

poster sirfredfredgeorge thanks for the response.

My point was not to compare him to a small group of kids, but to understand where is in general. It is one thing to say he is progressing well, whereas another to say where he is within a large cohort (i.e. all of that year). For us the former is excellent as he is progressing, but the latter more critical as he has been behind and hence we want to know if he is catching up.

If teacher says he is catching up we would be relieved and happy the extra effort is paying off.

BTW he is in reception so the tests are few and far between - and the last one the results were not good.

Wolfiefan · 06/12/2017 15:27

It isn't helpful to compare your child to others. What is helpful is to know they are working well and making progress in line with what's to be expected based on their own abilities.
I would ask specifically what their strengths and weaknesses are and how best to support them in working on those weaknesses at home.

MaisyPops · 06/12/2017 15:33

What is helpful is to know they are working well and making progress in line with what's to be expected based on their own abilities.
I would ask specifically what their strengths and weaknesses are and how best to support them in working on those weaknesses at home.
This.
Focusinh on areas of strengrh and weakness is much more helpful.
and totally why i battle some otherwise lovelu y11s each week who get irritated that i don't put a grade on each piece of work because I want them to listen to the feedback, not see a gradr and switch off

Wolfiefan · 06/12/2017 15:35

Maisy I used to teach and we were often advised not to grade certain pieces of work. It made students focus on what they had done well and what they could improve on rather than just the grade. (Or comparing themselves to others.) They didn't like it much to start with but it was very effective!

MaisyPops · 06/12/2017 15:37

Wolfiefan
I grade some and target mark others. They were fine in y10 but now the mocks are coming up they're getting twitchy gradr obsession.
Bless them. They are lovely.

Wolfiefan · 06/12/2017 15:47

Oh bless. Sounds like a good plan. I hope they do well.

jamdonut · 07/12/2017 07:30

Haven't read all the thread but just wanted to add that at our school although we do tend to group by ability, the kids know it is fluid and that you may move elsewhere for other things. There is no shame attached to being moved, it is just the way it is. What matters is their own targets and not being part of that "top table" group...I don't see why parents get so hung up on what tables they're sitting at, tbh. Does it look like failure or reflect on them somehow? Don't tell everyone you know "" oh yes, junior is on top table for everything", then you and your child won't be disappointed.

MaisyPops · 07/12/2017 19:24

I don't see why parents get so hung up on what tables they're sitting at, tbh. Does it look like failure or reflect on them somehow? Don't tell everyone you know "" oh yes, junior is on top table for everything", then you and your child won't be disappointed.
It does for certain types of parent.
They love the bragging rights and treat the child as an extention of their own ego. Their child being top and better than other kids obviously proves what an amazing parent they are.

It's really sad to watch and I always feel for thr poor kids who (despite pushy braggy parent types claiming otherwise) internalise the belief that 'the best kids are smart. Smart kids don't make mistakes. Smart kids find the work easy' etc and then struggle when they realise that things are challenging abd that they will get things wrong.
Of course for pushy braggy parents their darling getting things wrong or being moved seats is a massive mistake which obviously shows a failing in the teacher because their child is so bright they are top and better than other kids.
They can't stand any situation where their child isn't best/top.

It's such a shame because there are so many bright kids having their esteem ruined by their parents' attitudes.

catkind · 07/12/2017 20:34

Smart kids don't make mistakes.

I can't work out if I am or aren't a pushy parent by your description. I push for DC to be given hard work because I don't think it's good for them to be finding everything easy or to be expecting never to make a mistake. So I think I'm agreeing with you? But not really seeing where the pushy parents come in. If the work's challenging they will be getting stuck sometimes and making mistakes sometimes. So parents are telling them they should never make mistakes and should find it easy even if they do and don't? I've not come across that brand of pushy.

We keep getting given group information, because teachers always seem to bring classroom organisation into the conversation when we feed back that child is finding something very easy. (Actually they did it for DS's weaker subject too.)

MaisyPops · 07/12/2017 21:12

catkind
You seem reasonable to me.
You are concerned with your child being challenged so thry will learn. At times that means reasonably contacting school (and we really don't mind reasonable people asking reasomable questions).

The people I'm referring to are the ones who think their child shpuld find everything easy because they are so smart, are on top table, top set and they mist be better than other kids because it feeds the parents' egos whilst creating a child with fragile self esteem.

catkind · 07/12/2017 22:51

You seem reasonable to me.
Phew, thanks Yes, that's exactly it, I want to see them learning. DS is so much happier when he's learning too, DD doesn't currently seem to mind spending all day doing stuff that's "easy peasy" (her description) but I have a niggling feeling it's not good for her.

NotAgainYoda · 10/12/2017 18:08

I think you need to learn more resilience

Notintheframe · 12/12/2017 11:28

This is rather sad. OP, going by your posts, if your son does not become more resilient, then I think he will struggle through life. No matter how book smart and sporty he may be, if he can't cope with simple things like what you described then you should be very concerned.

CotswoldStrife · 12/12/2017 11:37

Firstly, I'm not a teacher. Secondly, I doubt the OP has all her staff in her room at the same time, it's quite a different scenario!

The reaction of your DS seems to mirror your own, OP.

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