Ahhhhhh... Why do Teachers do this?

[User998877]

Ds (Y5) is a child that is both academic and good at sports, sits on tops tables for Maths/Literacy and is in most of the school sports teams. This is not a boast by any means as despite his capabilities he struggles terribly with his self esteem, always has. He is better than he was as I've worked tirelessly at home to help him with this.

He is popular pupil, got voted for school council etc by his peers and the head promotes him as a role model for the school. Yet one comment can bring him tumbling down so fast, for example tonight he has come home very upset as his CT told him to move from the top table to another one... no explanation, just told him to sit at the other table, which ds did without question.

This is a new teacher to the school and I've had very little interaction with him, I don't take issue with ds being moved as such, there could be many reasons why he has done this but surely ds deserves an explanation as to why he's being moved.

I've now got a ds who's insisting that he must be crap at reading (he's not BTW) as why else would he be moved.. I'm tempted to go in before work and have a word or am I overreacting?

Wolfie I manage to give explanations without it being time consuming, I don't see why a CT can't!

So if the teacher had said 'DS move to that table please because you aren't good enough for this one' that would be OK? No, thought not.
Or 'DS please move to that table so you can help X'. Might be OK for your DS, but how would X feel?
Teachers shouldn't need to explain themselves over every seating decision.

We've talked about how successful he is in all that he does both in/out of school

You need to talk about valuing effort . Then as long as you know he tries you can always praise him and he can always feel valued.
How's he going to feel at secondary if he isn't (top of) top set? Or if he gets moved down a set? Or doesn't make a sports team he tries out for?

User998877
Because it's not always appropriate to and i don't buy into the justify everything you do to satisfy kids and theit parents.

So the teacher walks over to DC and says 'I want you to work on this table today because another parent has said raised concerns about the dynamic on your table and from our observations you seem to be the ring leader'?
'You're working on this table today because you made more mistakes in the last test than others so I want to move you'?
'I'm moving you because another child has a mental healtj condition and I think you'd be a wonderful partner'?

Or much better to say 'This is my classroom. I will decide groups and seating so everyone learns and feels safe in our classroom. When I move anyone it is always to help you learn'.

You're dealing with one child.
The teacher has 30.
They all have differing needs.
Explaining why you want child a to move tables, child b to pick up the pencil they dropped and why child c shouldn't tap their pencil? Less time for actual teaching and learning.
If you need someone to explain every decision they make to your child and give completely undivided attention maybe you should consider homeschooling.

I wish some classrooms weren't so rigidly set up so that the children know exactly who the 'top' and 'bottom' tables are. Wouldn't it be nice if they all moved round and supported eachother

Without meaning to sound unfeeling, I think your ds has never had to develop his resilience as he’s always been top/chosen/favourite whatever you will. I do agree that he should have received an explanation however for the movement, then maybe this wouldn’t have escalated into a big confidence knocking.

But if the teacher gives a reason to your children then do they have to do it for every single decision they make? That would be time consuming and undermining.

There's some good advice on this thread re praising effort and building resilience

TeenTimesTwo
You raise a valid point by secondary. Anyone rang me up because i moved their child's seat would be a bit hmm to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for parents to contact me and discuss concerns but worry over a seat damaging a student's self esteem would sit oddly with me.

I've spent months getting some of my very bright students to realise that I want them to take risks, be indepensent etc because that is where the high marks are but some of them are so crippled with the need to know what is top, who got top, tell us a formula (which doesn't exist) that when I see threads like this I can totally see thr likely origins of some of these bright students.

I guess from some of the responses I'm getting quite a few of the replies are from Teachers.

I'm sorry I just don't buy the "We are Teachers and therefor don't have to give explanations" line!

Good luck with that approach if you decide on a different career path.

If a child is kept in at lunch etc of course they should understand why.
But this isn't some kind of punishment.
You're being previous and encouraging him to be anxious and lack confidence.
He needs to learn to shrug some things off. As do you.

Why not suggest that DS asks teacher tomorrow, if the opportunity it's arises?

I don't think you build self esteem by telling someone how successful they are. They can start to feel that they are only valued because of the success - so if they are no longer successful then they won't be valued.

Instead, praising effort, kindness, resilience, risk taking, 'I know it didn''t work but at least you tried' can make a big difference.

DD2 had quite low self esteem in y4/5 when she worked out (helped by peers who were quite happy to mention it) that yes actually she was pretty rubbish at everything (all the stuff you mentioned in your opening post for a start). We and the primary and later secondary school worked really hard at praising effort etc and it made a tremendous difference.

And again for those choosing not to read my words...

We are working (and continue to do so) on resilience and self esteem. He is not at all like the child some of you have decided from the few words I have written. He is not in the least under any pressure from home nor does he put himself under pressure to be the best. He shows empathy beyond his years, recently taking it upon himself to buy food with his own money to take to the local food bank, donating a prize that he won to another child in his class who was upset about their parents illness. So forgive me if I tell you that you have him wrong!

He is just a great kid who needs some help and guidance on a particular part of his personality that he is struggling with, nothing more. Yet you have all become experts in my son dictating where I am going wrong, which incidentally I didn't ask for on this thread.

I guess from some of the responses I'm getting quite a few of the replies are from Teachers.
So understand why telling kids they deserve an explanation for perfectly reasonable requests is at best disrutpive and at worst ends up with kids thinking if they don't like the reason/don't get a reason then they can opt out (and this attitude is usually promoted by parents and this attitude is a bloody nightmare by secondary).

I'm sorry I just don't buy the "We are Teachers and therefor don't have to give explanations" line!
Me - 'Timmy pick that pen up and pass it to me please'
Timmy (with a parent who thinks every reasonable request deserves an explanation) - Why? It's not even mine. Sighs. Eye rolls.
Me - I didn't say it was. Pass me the pen
Timmy passes me the pen because he isn't an idiot and at 15 knows fine well i want my classroom tidy.

Me - today's groups are on the board. Grab your seats.
My class - moves to today's groups without fuss because i sit for learning.

My classes know I will have high expectations, expect their best work, will allocate groups and seats as and when I need to. They know I do this because I care about them and want everyone to learn.

I don't justify perfectly reasonable requests and to be honest after attempts even the most moody students don't bother arguing with me. They know if they wish to discuss something with me or raise a question about something thry can do it before/after class or at break/lunch and I will listen.

No silly 'but my mam says you have to explain yourself to me' nonsense required.

Good luck with that approach if you decide on a different career path
I managed just fine for many years in my pre teaching career.
When you make silly comments like that you start sounding like one of those parents who thinks teachers could never make it in the 'real world' etc.

Moving table doesn’t make a child any better or worse at reading- his reading is the same as it was before the move.

You / he sound over hung up about the measure of worth being that he is on the “top” table, popular, in teams etc etc. Nobody is brilliant at everything and maybe your son needs to understand that?

Agree that he needs to learn resilience and something like a change in the seating plan doesn’t warrant an explanation or you having a word with the teacher. As someone said up thread the reason may not be appropriate for him to know.

I would be concerned also if my child viewed those not on the top table as crap and perhaps think about how I discuss school things with them at home.

Also but shocked parents know their child is on the top table (or even care) - surely the only important thing is that they are making progress?

Wolfie

You clearly know my son so much better than me, I suspect you are a teacher, why else would you hold yourself in such high esteem.

I think you should ask the teacher why he has moved because it is bothering you. If that's what you mean by "have a word"?

If he had been told the reason he moved was because he was working at the level of the new table rather than the "top" table, would that have made things better for him?

Also but shocked parents know their child is on the top table (or even care) - surely the only important thing is that they are making progress?
Oh but they do.
My school doesn't set in some year groups and every half term we have someone call up wanting to know why their child can't be moved up a set / complains that 'students in top set are doing...'. / wants to know why their child has moved down a set from last year / wants to know why another child has been moved up a set when 'I'm not beinh funny but my child is brighter than the child who moved'.

It does my head in! We do not set in your child's year. No sets. So no top set. So please stop calling up to inform me what is going on in a top set that doesn't fucking exist... because... WE DO NOT HAVE SETS IN YOUR CHILD'S YEAR!

Look OP, we can only go with what you have written.
We are trying to help.
You are the one who focussed in your OP on how good your DS is at everything and then in a follow up about talking to him about how successful he is.

People have patiently explained why it's not practical for teachers to explain every change of seating to the class.

I'm really not sure what else you want from this thread. What explanation would be acceptable to you (and where the teacher wouldn't have to lie, even if the reason was that for that task your DS wasn't 'top table' material).

You clearly know my son so much better than me, I suspect you are a teacher, why else would you hold yourself in such high esteem.

Ah. Another teacher bashing thread. Wonderful.

Sounds like you don't like teachers much.

You asked if you were over reacting and the over whelming response has been that you are.

@User998877 - I helped out in class, at the dses’ school, so I can tell you firsthand that teachers need to impart a lot of information and instructions during the course of the school day. If they have to explain every single thing to their 30 pupils, they will spend most of their time doing that - wouldn’t you rather they were teaching your child and their fellow pupils?

PurpleDaisies
So predictable.

OP is given reasons based on people's experiences and then doesn't like it.

From the second she mentioned some of you are clearly teachers & suggested we'd never manage in another job I decdied that it's probably not worth explaining to the OP.

Other posters are worth talking to though.

I think you are unrealistic in your expectations of what the class teacher has time to do in class.

I am interested in where your son gets his self esteem issues from?

To justify what the teacher should do by stating your role in an organisation (i have a staff of over four hundred ...) is irrelevant.

Please don't bother the teacher with this and encourage/empower your son to ask the teacher himself it will be good for his self esteem.

Is this your issue or his?