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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

dd in reception needed toilet for number two's and was refused twice by teacher

94 replies

curlysmum · 17/04/2007 21:38

dd who is just 5 says she asked twice to go to the toilet this afternoon and she said no twice , they were doing silent reading , she also had a paper cut from the book she was looking at that was bleeding and wanted to wipe it. She says she then started crying and after silent reading was finished she was allowed to go by herself , she says she was desperate to do a wee and a poo (sorry for detail). dd was still quite stressed & upset this evening about it, I am quite annoyed really surely when they are this age she should let them go , dd says she only went to the toilet that once today and that was this time. would you say anything to the teacher , her Dad is really quite mad says I shd say something to the teacher?? I mean I know they are not babies now ? any thoughts ?god she only just gone back to school yesterday after the holiday.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Blandmum · 21/04/2007 17:52

When dh was in a cancer ward before xmas I saw a bloke (patient) behave in a horrilble way to one poor nurse. She had told him that he couldn't smoke on the ward and he was Fing and blinding at her!

Because he couldn't smoke on a cancer ward. Where people had oxygen lines.

You can't make shit like this up!

DANCESwithaFewExtraPounds · 21/04/2007 17:54

NKF · 21/04/2007 18:05

MB - that's marvellous. Well, it isn't but I'm sure you know what you mean. I bet he banged on about his "rights" and "political correctness gone mad". You're right, you couldn't make it up.

Blandmum · 21/04/2007 18:09

I was horrified and then astonished; by his stupidity and by his selfishness.

He was in the loos, which were in a small alcove, adjacent to a poor bloke who was on an O2 line.

When I sympathised with the nurse she said that he had been agressive on several occasions but he couldn't be discharged because he was so ill.

Ill or not the poor bloody nurse had a right not to be verbally abused.

And dh and all the other poor sods on the ward had a right not to be put at such an awful risk.

cat64 · 21/04/2007 18:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Thelittlesoldiersmummy · 21/04/2007 18:51

DANCESwithaFewExtraPounds to me this teacher has an attitude problem she should remember that she is there to teach the children not make them feel bad Also I find it terrible that a person in the public section would act so badly towards a someone!

I had a very good education thank you! but I know what Curlysmum is talking about when she says the teacher talks down to her and I dont think she should have to accept it!

RedLorryYellowLorry · 21/04/2007 18:54

One reason I'm not a teacher - parents!

Pixiefish · 21/04/2007 18:54

MB- I actually enjoy the work I was doing (although as I said I have had to stop now due to being pregnant)
There's a real feeling of cameraderie amongst the staff and the school is very well run. Meetings every night for 10 minutes to discuss the day. You really feel as if you are part of a team there.
We also eat lunch- 2 staff to a table and 2 pupils- it really is very strict and controlled but things do hot house quite often purely due to the nature of the pupils and their problems.

Re the smoking- it's been banned in public places in Wales now thank goodness but in hospitals the patients smoke outsdie the doors. When I was in hospital having had dd 3 years ago (still banend in hospital at the time) one of the midwives on the ward was taking a patient down for a fag- what a total waste of a valuable resource.

TheodoresMummy · 21/04/2007 20:02

Martianbishop - I did not say 'who the hell do teachers think they are?'

I said 'who the hell do THESE teachers think they are ?' - in response to the OP.... Should have prob said THIS teacher, but further posts are making me wonder actually...

I admire the vast majority of teachers. They do a very difficult job, difficult largely because of the crazy class sizes !!

However, I think that a lot of the rules/attitudes/general set-up of state schools are completely wrong and this thread hit a nerve I suppose, so I got a bit arsey.

Blandmum · 21/04/2007 20:57

and I repeat my answer. That teacher is the one that would be held responsible if there was an accident.

Do you seriously thik that children should just be allowed to go where they like in school time? So if 6 children all decided to go to the loo at the same time they should be allowed to go?

Have your children never played in the bathroom? mine have. Chilren like to play with running water. Get more than one or two in the loos at one time and you have a potential recipe for chaos, and accidents.

there is a world of a difference in looking after one child in their own home and looking after 30 in a classroom. You do need rules. Not because the teacher is a 'Little Hitler' but because if you don't all hell can break loose.

And if that happens it is the teacher who is held responsible.

Blandmum · 21/04/2007 20:58

and example. A great mate of mine 'got arsey' with a school because they told her ds off for jumping down 5 stairs. He did it at home, she said, and was quite safe.

Can you imagine the chaos it would cause if all kids jumped down 5 stairs!

A good rule for one child can be an accident waiting to happen when you have to look after lots

TheodoresMummy · 21/04/2007 22:49

I'm NOT sugesting that at all. I have said 2 or 3 times now that the teacher obviously needs to know where the children are.

What I am saying is that a child should TELL the teacher that he/she needs the toilet rather than ASKING.

A teacher should NOT be allowed to tell a child NO you can't go to the toilet because they are supposed to be reading.

A teacher should be allowed to tell a child hold on 1 minute because someone else is already in the toilet.

And I am fully aware that looking after 30 children at school is different to looking after a family at home....

DumbledoresGirl · 21/04/2007 22:57

Get real TM. Teachers need control of their children - you would be the first to complain if an accident occurred because the teacher was not in control.

I know the OP is referring to a 5 year old (I suspect quiet reading took place just after lunchtime and that might be why the teacher did not let the child go immediately - because she felt the child should have gone at lunchtime). I wouldn't like to comment about 5 year olds as I have never taught that young, but I have taught older children and it is not usual to allow them access to the toilets whenever they feel like going. You may not realise this, but if the rule was that children told the teacher they were going to the toilet, rather than asked if they may, there would be some children who would find an excuse to go to the toilet 20 times a day.

There has to be discipline and control in schools.

TheodoresMummy · 21/04/2007 22:58

Can I just ask a daft question then ? Are toilets monitered at break and lunchtime ? (I mean in primary schools)

DumbledoresGirl · 21/04/2007 23:00

Oh and re someone's comment about complaining to the head that the child was not allowed to go to the toilet immediately: whe I taught, I remember the head occasionally asking us teachers to crack down down on the number of toilet visits during lesson time. Again, I am not speaking here about very young children, but certainly by the time they are 8 plus it is positively frowned upon that a child cannot discipline themselves to use the toilet at break times only. After all, would you think it OK for the teacher to take toilet breaks in lesson time?

TheodoresMummy · 21/04/2007 23:09

Look I don't want this to turn sour (particularly as it's not my thread), but I would be inclined to suggest that a child who visits the toilet 20 times a day will probably get bored of it after a few days and is most definately bored in the classroom.

FluffyMummy123 · 21/04/2007 23:11

Message withdrawn

DumbledoresGirl · 21/04/2007 23:13

So many children are bored in the classroom. I am afraid it isn't always because the teacher is boring.

WendyWeber · 21/04/2007 23:16

Yes but this is a Reception child!

And WTF are they doing "silent reading" at 5???? The mind boggles.

DumbledoresGirl · 21/04/2007 23:21

I don't find anything extraordinary at silent reading at 5. I doubt very much it is what you are imagining.

But I do agree that at 5 are young enough for the argument to be blurred.

TheodoresMummy · 21/04/2007 23:21

I agree with you DG.

Teachers on the whole are very hard working, in the job for the right reasons and facing un uphill struggle everyday. I'm not slagging off 'teachers' (although there are def crap ones too, as with any job).

I just think the whole system is crap and needs a massive overhaul, but that's for another thread....

DumbledoresGirl · 21/04/2007 23:26

Sorry, my sentence construction is going to pot. I am off to bed.

(BTW, there are dreadful teachers out there - I know that as much as most - but I am not allowed to say that here. I get pounced on by other Mners who are also teachers! There are also dreadful parents though, who undermine the work of teachers, particularly on the discipline front. It is not necessarily a profession I look forward to returning to). My rant over!

MadamePlatypus · 21/04/2007 23:32

"However, I think that a lot of the rules/attitudes/general set-up of state schools are completely wrong"

I didn't go to a private school until I was 11, but nobody (including the teacher) ever went to the toilet during lessons. We all went at break or in the lunch hour...

TheodoresMummy · 22/04/2007 08:10

Apologies for putting my POV across badly. esp to MB.

IMO many school rules are outdated and petty. I realise that class teachers don't introduce these rules, just enforce them. I should not have been so quick to criticise the teachers.

Hope no hard feelings and would be happy to continue 'chatting' on another thread if you felt you wanted to.

Blandmum · 22/04/2007 09:06

I think that from the outside many rules may seem outdated and petty. I thought much the same thing until I entered the profession. And then I learned a very strangle thing. Classroom dynanics are very odd!

Left alone, a child who went to the toilet 20 times in a day would in all probability get very tired of it and stop.

If one child in a class of 30 did this, they woudl almost all want to do it! Even as young as 5. It would probably become the 'thing' to do.

And as an adult such things astonish, because it seems to be such a daft thing to do.

I teach in secondary and I can tell you that the presence or absence of a single child can utterly change the dynamics of the classroom and lesson.

Because children interact, and 'play up' to each other.

When I entered teaching I thought it awful that kids were denied access to loos in lesson time. having to have books signed to go was demaning 'outdated' and 'petty'. Then I discovered the reality; if you let some out, they will vandalise, set fire to toliets, stick soiled sanitary pads to the walls , and smear faeces over the floor! So we need to know who was in the loos when!

The 'no holding hands' (at secondary) one I also thought stupid, and outdated. Until the next school to us had a case where a girl gave her boyfreind a hand job in the back of the classroom. this is the most popular school in the area BTW and parent fight to get their kids into it.

If you spent some time in schools (and I'm not saing this as a put down or to be argumentative) you might very well change your mind. I know that spending time in a school changed mine.

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