dd in reception needed toilet for number two's and was refused twice by teacher

[curlysmum]

dd who is just 5 says she asked twice to go to the toilet this afternoon and she said no twice , they were doing silent reading , she also had a paper cut from the book she was looking at that was bleeding and wanted to wipe it. She says she then started crying and after silent reading was finished she was allowed to go by herself , she says she was desperate to do a wee and a poo (sorry for detail). dd was still quite stressed & upset this evening about it, I am quite annoyed really surely when they are this age she should let them go , dd says she only went to the toilet that once today and that was this time. would you say anything to the teacher , her Dad is really quite mad says I shd say something to the teacher?? I mean I know they are not babies now ? any thoughts ?god she only just gone back to school yesterday after the holiday.

'who the hell do teachers think they are?'

The people who are held responsible if there is an accident or incident regarding a child.

Why do they as?, to be polite, and also so that the teacher knows there isn't a large number of children in the tolet.

If your child slipped on a puddle of water in the loos, cause because children were playing in there I dare say you'd complain TM.

Looking after 28 children is vastly different from looking after one.

Oh and in the secondary school where work we have had to stop children using the toilets in lesson time.

The reason?

Some little charmer took the oppertunitiy to defecate all over the floor in the girls toilets. My, but that was a nice job for the cleaner to sort out!

I'd wait to hear what the teacher has to say. Children sometimes don't report events accurately.

Teachers have to know where all children are at anytime because if there is a fire they need to know why someone is not lined up to leave (of course TAs would check toilets too).

WW - our local school has a whole school policy of reading for the first 15 minutes. In infant classrooms it's a chance for children to choose any books they like and look through them, it's not 'silent reading' as such!

Curlysmum - it would be childish to take your dh's behaviour out on her but remember she is just another person. If someone has been rude and frankly from what you say, a little aggressive, it is not very surprising (although I would agree a bit unprofessional) that she is defensive with your family. Also when your dd says she was refused twice maybe she just asked at the wrong time eg teacher has just settled the class down on the carpet to start explaining something and then a child says 'I need the toilet' it is aggravating because you then know that child is going to miss your input and need the topic re-explaining. I can't think of any other reason why you would refuse a child to go to the toilet though!

Even in Year 1 dd can ask to go to the toilet in lessons although they are actively encouraged to go at more appropriate times such as break or when going off for PE etc. However it may also depend on how far the toilet is in relation to the classroom and whether they are allowed to go there unsupervised.

By all means ask what the circumstances were but try not to be too heavyhanded. Yes, of course she should be allowed to go as and when she needs, and if she found this upsetting you should definitely say so, but presumably the teacher has to monitor every child's whereabouts and it may not have been the best time for her to disappear from the teacher's view. In reality it probably wasn't a long wait (Reception "lessons" are typically short) although it won't have felt like that to her. Perhaps if you could ask that she prompts dd (and I daresay others) to go at break and before they start the afternoon the situation could be avoided in future.

I teach secondary and would allow any child to go to the loo during a lesson.

There have been times when I have had to refuse pixiefish. One girl would repeatedly ask to go, and in actual fact she was trying to abscond before the social service team came to collect her at the end of the day. Made me feel awful.

Extenuating circs there though MB.

AT the schools I have taught at kids aren't meant to be on the corridor during lessons so I have always taken it as genuine if they are willing to risk being caught by a senior team member and explaining themselves

We have to sign HW diaries if they go. But in practice this isn;t always done. Following the shit smearing incident we limited them to the use in Breaks/lunch time only.

I must say that I have had classes where kids did try it on.

in ds 5 class the teacher asks just before they start something - after register, before they go upstairs to computer room etc. he can ask at anytime. however, if she had asked everyone and then 2 minutes later when they had all started he asked then (not once but made it a habit) - mauybe then she wuld say something. i think its a good way to getting to to wait till the very last minute. IYSWIM

also see some kids do it as they are bored in an activity. IMO

spoke to a friends girl about the toilets in her secondary school and she said she can't believe girls can be so dirty. sticking dirty pads on the walls seems to be in thing. gross!!

We have had that, The pads thing. Vile.

We have also recently had someone smear shit over the floor.

And a fire started.....large enough to need the fire engine to put it out.

When I entered teaching I felt that children should always be let out. Now I have seen what some do when given this level of freedom, I'm not so sure.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. I realise that good children are being penalised for the actions of the bad, but staff cannot monitor the toilets in lesson time. And CCTV would be a gross invasion of privacy.

At the moment they are not let out of lessons (re the shit incident) but have to wait till break time. I would always let a girl out who had, say, started her periods unexpectedly. I don't know what the right answer is.

ohh this would make me so angry if I teacher spoke to me like that I would make sure that she knew it was not acceptable! These people are paid from Tax payers money thus we pay their wages why they think they can speak down to people i don't know!!!! I would go straight to the head on this one and say you feel uncomfortable speaking to her teacher as you have found her quite rude I would also say you are very concerned that it would seem that the class records are wrong and that you would like them to look in to it! Why speak to the Monkey when you can speak to the organ grinder! Make sure they know that the experience have upset both you and your daughter!

If you go in thinking of the teacher as a 'monkey' don't be surprised if they feel a little defensive.

To me it seems that there are a few teachers who get off far to much on the authority they have over the children which seems to have happened in this case She should be reminded she is there to teach not to be little hitler!

Is she being a 'little Hitler'?

It seems to me that in lots of threads on MN schools are blamed for all sorts of things, and teachers bare the brunt.

I well remember a thread about another 'Hitler' teacher who had bullied a child. there were calls to report her to the head, the governers and the LEA. Her sacking was called for, IIRC.

In the end the MNetters child admitted that she had made the whole thing up.

There is another thread running atm where a school was initialy throught to have given a MNetters phone number to another, very angry and rather nasty parent. In the end it seemed that the school didn't give the phone number.

I have had a child complain that I kept him in for all of break and lunch time and fobad him from eating his food. In fact I gave him a 10 minye breaktime deterntion (out of 20 minutes) and did nothing to him at lunch. I dare say his mother thinks I am a 'Little Hitler'

In all these cases the facts must be establised before people go in demanding to see someone other than the 'Monkey' or the l'ittle hitler'.

Going in, while angry, without always having all the facts is never a good idea.

If the facts sho that this teacher is in the wrong, then steps need to be taken to address the problem.

Calling teacher Monkeys or Little Hitlers is unlikly to get a positive outcome.

Who'd be a teacher eh! No wonder they're leaving the profession in droves.

I've left NKF. Doing the occasional little bit of supply to help old friends out when they're desperate. Apart for that I have been teaching boys with challenging behaviour (can't do that at the moment due to being pregnant.

The way I feel there is that the boys will be offensive and swear at me and probbaly try to attack me BUT at least I am expecting it and I get paid more for doing it. PLUS the headmaster shields me from the parents who are often worse than the kids but I don't have to see it

Threads like this certainly make me re-think my decision. I suppose one just hardens up.

My son does to a lovely little infant school, where the classrooms are all open plan and they have homebays, the toilets are part of the open plan set up, the children ont have to ask to go to the loo(they are year 1) but must just tell a teacher they are going, for obvious reasons.

NKF- I couldn't harden up because it would have meant I didn't care any more and that's why I went into teaching- because I care.

As I say I prefer pupils with challenging behaviour becasue we are properly equipped to deal with a lot of problems. We have personal alarms and walkie talkies with a response time of something like 60 seconds, have 3 or 4 TA's, school is basically locked down most of the time. 4 pupils per class. 2 'bouncers' permanently walking round the school as troubleshooters. Councelling for the kids constantly. My job there is to teach and the ancilliarty staff make sure that I can. We have the manpower to deal with them whereas in mainstream school you don't have the manpower

V interesting comments Pixiefish. I have a friend who went to teach in a special school from MS for the same reasons.

He loves to work with the kids, has very small numbers to work with (4 each with a helper).

As he says he gets hit and bitten regularly but he knows that they don't 'mean' to hurt him!

Says it is less stressful than having 28 NT kids in a mainstream school class and feels that he achieves more.

ThelittleSoldiersMummy - I think your attitude is absolutely disgusting I was in hospital last year and it did not for one second cross my mind to think 'These people are paid from Tax payers money thus we pay their wages' in my attitude to the nurses and doctors and yet you are suggesting that anyone in the public sector can be treated this way. You sound like someone who has a bad experience yourself at school. I honestly feel very sorry for you going through life with an attitude like that.

Dance - it's awful but people do think like that about hospital staff. I was recently visiting someone in hospital and I heard people shouting at the reception staff. Just screaming at them. Incredible behaviour.

NKF - It's unbelievable isn't it? I think my response was fairly mild, that sort of attitude makes me so angry. I don't know why people think like that, the 'you work in the public sector so I own you attitude' Funnily enough everyone in the public sector pays taxes too so are we effectively self employed?!