Advantages of state over private?

[CakeLoving]

Our girl starts reception next year. Her grandparents have offered to help with the cost of private school, and there are a couple of pretty good prep/4-16 private schools close by.

But part of me thinks (having seen step siblings go through the state school system- I went private) that there are distinct advantages to going to the local community school.

I'm interested in what others feel these are. We are in London and some of the threads on here make me feel like an awful mother for even considering state...which seems completely skewed!

Depends entirely on which private school and which state school.

At 4 - 8, schools teach children to socialise, organise themselves and to read, write and do simple arithmetic. None of that is very difficult so unless the state school has a particularly challenging demographic it will tick all the boxes.

Later the extra curricular offering in some private schools can make a big difference, but if you have a supportive family set up you can organise all that for consoderably less money.

If I had in laws or üarents offering to pay fees I would want them to put the money in an account from the start to avoid them feeling that by financing the chil‘s education they can make key decisions about their future. But I had manipulative parents....

In my mind 7-16 or 11-16 is preferable to 4-18 if we were to go private

you need to check how easy it is to get in at 7 or 11. Where I live moving from state to private at either of those entry points requires 18 months - 2 years intensive tutoring to pass the 7+ or 11+ and avoiding this is a major reason to go in at 4

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is SEN.

If your child turns out to have additional needs of some sort you may find that a private school gently tells you that your child might thrive better elsewhere ...

(The private schools that assess children for entry at 4 are partly checking that there aren't any SEN issues.)

You'd have to be absolutely rolling in money to send more than one child through private education all the way. Especially with brexit on the horizon. It's really only worth it if your state options are absolutely dire.

We felt we fitted more socially/politically/idealogically in the state sector. We also liked the idea of them being able to walk to school.

You should be able to find a prep that goes up to 11. Then 11-18. Not 16. The best schools have 6th forms in the private sector. Are Boarding schools from 13 also a possibility? If so, you need a prep that goes to 13. You always need to choose a prep according to the senior school you want. I wouldn't look at a school that only goes to 16 because they have no need to worry about entry to 6th form and will not necessarily have the best teachers with no 6th form either. It's a bit limiting all round!

We've just moved from private to state and so far for our son state is by far the better school.

It's an outstanding primary where as I don't think his private school was outstanding probably mediocre but that is not to say that every state school is outstanding and every private school is mediocre.

We are now saving the money with the hope we can eventually buy the DCs a flat when they are older or a very nice deposit.

Take the money out of it and decide.

Visit the local state schools in your area and private schools, you’ll know what’s right for you...

We chose state primary but could have afforded private comfortably. We like.... mixed, friends live nearby, short walk to school, little pressure from school which is lovely in infants stage, strong academic progress, sibling priority, values - church school. I’d avoid schools that go all the way through - most children benefit from the opportunity to recreate themselves at 11 or 13. I also wonder if a pre-prep which looks nurturing and gentle at 4 can be small and boring at 7.

I accept that we’ll tutor for 2 years for the 11+. But around here tutoring is endemic in private schools too, so those families pay twice. We pay for extracurricular activities which would be free at a private school.

Advantages of a selective private vs an outstanding state:

• More challenging and stimulating curriculum
• Focus on developing a passion for learning
• Personalised homework
• Smaller class sizes
• Generally better teachers who stick around
• Smart, polite and friendly peers
• Consequently no disruption in class
• Better sports (incl. swimming)
• Better and wider range of clubs
• Better relationships with other parents

Disadvantages:

• Well, the cost (but you do get what you are paying for)
• School run could be longer depending on your circumstances

Hope that helps.

*Generally better teachers who stick around

• Smart, polite and friendly peers
• Better relationships with other parents*

Are you serious?

show them the fees
factor in 5% fee rise every year compound x 13 years and show them what it will be at the end
make quite sure they aren't going to pull out

Most private schools would let your in-laws pay the fees upfront as a lump sum which protects against increases in school fees and provides the security of knowing the fees are paid for x number of years

Most private schools would let your in-laws pay the fees upfront as a lump sum

I don't believe this is normal practice. I have heard of schools doing this but it usually takes a lot of negotiation

Yes. Not sure why the former would be a surprise, but I was pretty amazed with the latter myself - was expecting a bunch of aloof overworked people. In general the private school exceeded our expectations in basically all areas, and I was quite sceptical going in. My DC couldn't be happier with the switch.

Oh you live in London.

We get all that at state down here in the cuntry

LondonMum8 interesting what you say as the private schools I've been in have had poorer teachers than in state schools and far less facilities in some areas (ICT as an example). This may just be my area but where I am I'd choose a good state school over private rather than let mine mix with some pretty obnoxious children who were still disruptive just in a 'posh' way.

I agree the classes are smaller but children there still had friendship issues, private schools don't suddenly make all peers nice. I found them competitive over who has the best holidays, biggest boats etc...

scabbersly - exDH did this for DC’s school fees at a well-regarded indie day/boarding school. DD changed school for 6th form and they refunded that portion of the school fees.

I am biased I admit. My dd was bullied, badly, at a small independent school. The girls were awful. Getting together and daring each other to drink urine. Disgusting and weird. This was a private school that advertises its pastoral care. Nothing they saw in the state system was anything like as bad.

Dd2 is at a different, excellent indie. She is in year 10 and loads of girls smoke. Hardly any smoke in year 10 at the local state.

The point of this is to say the worst behaviour I have ever seen in schools was at private school.

Scabbersley, not sure sure how you could claim you are getting "all that" since all I actually offered was a comparison between 2 particular schools. London schooling scene is extremely competitive so a non-selective provincial state school would be quite unlikely to be a match in terms of the curriculum in particular, given that they've got to stick to NC, work with a broader spectrum of ability, all the while operating under much less competitve pressure.

Getting into Grammar schools

Systemoverload99 clearly not all schools are equal. In our case there is no contest. I wouldn't pay for a non-competitve, not ranked or not well reputed private option. To be fair, we did have a truly brilliant teacher in reception at the state outstanding. She left mid-year.

.... sorry, that was an advantage of Private over State Primary. Sod everyone else

Systemoverload99 we are not in Central London, so there is no problem with yacht contests between Russian and Middle Eastern oligarchs.

It was the three points that I mentioned that seem absurd to me, admittedly living in an area with excellent state schools.

Yes a wider curriculum possibly. My friends dd is at Marlborough and she is doing astronomy gcse apparently

It is quite absurd to think that a highly ranked selective indy with 3-4 times the budget per child would not be able to attract better teachers and have better accademic results than any urban state school (yes, outstanding and yes, in an area blessed with 2-3 outstanding primaries and an outstanding comp).