Primary school maths getting difficult for our kids ..

[harold81]

blog.mathsloth.com/2017/08/worldtop10elementarymathsqns.html

My DD ( primary 1 ) tried the list of questions .. and was 3 for 10. She managed the U.S. question, but the Hong Kong and China's primary 1 questions were slightly too difficult for her. The UK ones - she already knew when her teacher covered briefly with the class.

I have a feeling the standard of maths is unnecessarily high for primary school kids. The world's schools seem to think otherwise.. wonder how kids in other countries cope ..

DD see numbers and works out answers easily - however she is unable to prove how she got there.

This will be a huge downfall because of how've GCSE are marked, she needs to slow down and prove her answer.

If you compare this to English - children can record verbally their stories but the written work is awful - they can't spell so give up and use an easier word - so they can't prove they know the answers -

No I'm not missing the point Irvine I'm disagreeing with it.
How would you feel if your child's teacher said to him ...I know you can read fluently but you must sound out every word ...yes I know you know that word is in but say the sounds first ...yes I know you know that word is big but please say the sounds ...your need to say the sounds ... think how frustrated he would become with reading

hi folks, these questions are humbling. I wanted to start with the preschool question first, but I can't get past it. Can anyone shed some light on the preschool question 10 ?

It's a trick question. You are counting how many circles. So 8 has two circles therefore 8809 is six circles while 1111 is zero circles

Confess I've just looked at some of the questions and Q4 is much simpler and doesn't require algebra as suggested

You have to add all numbers between and including the two given. 1O4=10 1+2+3+4 = 10
2O5=14. 2+3+4+5 = 14

6O9=40. 6+7+8+9+10 = 40
9O11=30. 9+10+11 = 30
1O10= ? 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 = 55

karinkeller has provided this solution up-thread and I provided a general algebraic expression for 'a o b' while noting that I would not have expected the children to do likewise!

Returning to the case of Irvine’s DS and his method of calculating 49x49, I think that it would be a missed opportunity not to ask him for his method and to use it as a starting point for further exploration.

As I understand it, the process in his mind, if teased out into individual steps, goes like this:

49x49 = 49x50 – 49 = 50x50 – 50 – 49 = 2500 – 50 – 49 = 2401

This is interesting because the same shortcut method can be used for the squares of other numbers ending in 9. And there’s a similar shortcut method for squaring numbers ending in 1.

I think the procedures themselves are as worthy of attention as the answers provided by using those procedures for particular numbers.

And I’d find a child coming up with such shortcuts intriguing! They have a rather Vedic – ancient Indian – feel to them.

Why wouldn't you ask him?

I can't think of a reason not to ask unless you are very busy. Sounds like you agree with me. Good.

"This is interesting because the same shortcut method can be used for the squares of other numbers ending in 9" it also works for numbers ending in 4

I've never suggested that asking us a bad idea. I just don't think it's always necessary to write it down.

You're right that maths is proof you understand the formula and the answer is somewhat irrelevant

As for you're reading - most question are based on understanding the same as maths

They use emphasis meaning inferred etc - it's not a question of being able to read but understand what you're reading

Maths is the same - do you understand the question?

I couldn't disagree more with the idea primary maths is unnecessarily high. Completely the opposite, it is capped ridiculously low with an emphasis on age rather than ability, and the idea that 101 repetitive methods to grasp the same simple concept is a blanket benefit for all.

That's not to say that I think all dc would benefit from more complex mathematics, or that good teachers don't do their best to differentiate to ability. But I strongly disagree that accessing appropriate challenge should come down to luck rather than right. The curriculum itself should contain far more complex concepts.

I stand to be corrected by someone with more experience of teaching lower ability, but I've also mused that in some cases the longwinded methods and terminology could be counterproductive for dc who are struggling in situations where teaching isn't the best. A good teacher trying different methods and explanations to help a child understand is very different to a mediocre one hoping for pot luck with a dozen methods after over simplifying a very basic concept and thus implying it is complex.

As for workings, I think it's a fine line. Obviously everyone needs them at some level, but I do agree that too much just puts the able off. Plus it implies able dc should be able to do everything mentally. I was off school when long multiplication and division was covered, and it was years later I learnt everyone else did it differently to me. Being that way inclined I still got the right answer, but I think if I'd been just average top set ability my own method would have led to problems. Something that would have been noticed if I'd ever been asked for workings.

I was doing sin cos tan - triangles etc when I was in year 5!

This was the 1970's This isn't covered until year 8 now -

So yes maths is dumbed down an awful lot

I agree we have low expectations sometimes. I learnt percentages, Pythagoras, slide rule and trigonometry at primary school without too much stress.

They learn percentages and geometry including Pythagoras in Primary now. Slide rules have gone out if fashion with cheaper technology.

Thank you for the answer mrz.. awesome. I couldn't get around it because I was thinking it had to do with some operations around the numbers, and in the end, the answer lies in how the digits are meant to be written !

Still can't believe preschool kids can solve this though ..

I've got to be honest I don't think many would count the circles automatically. I'm a bit cynical about the whole blog to be honest.

Thank you for lovely, encouraging comment, Out.
That was when he was 6, now I really don't know how his brain works.
I was once told by his teacher he does things differently, but she said that was fine, since he gets the right answers.

Yes, I would certainly find it striking if a child of six came up with that strategy. A lot of people would see 49x49 as requiring the 9 times table.

By the way, I shouldn’t have called using a related procedure for 51x51 a ‘shortcut’ because it’s more or less what you would do using a standard chunking/grid method.

But your DS’s method is more like a generalised chunking/grid method that allows negative numbers:

..... 50 -1
50 2500 -50
-1 -50 1

Adding elements gives 2401

This is simpler – provided you know the rules for multiplying negative numbers - to calculate than the standard chunking/grid procedure

..... 40 9
40 1600 360
9 360 81

Adding elements gives 2401

(Sorry about formatting!)

So a for Irvine’s DS!

Just worked out my answer for question 8 (china problem) . It appears the trick is in going through the numbers in increasing circular fashion:

1 + 2 + 6 + 1 yields 10
8 + 1 + 2 + 8 + 1 yields 20
5 + 1 + 8 + 5 + 1 + 8 yields 28
7 + 5 + 4 + 7 + 5 + 4 + 7 yields 39, and thus, x = 39
5 + 7 + y + 5 + 7 + y + 5 + 7 yields 87 and thus, y= 25.5

It involves a bit of algebra for y though. I have yet to think around a non-algebra approach.

karinkeller awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Answer to number 9 is 87

It's remarkable what you can teach children if you actually try. Problems usually only arise when poor teaching is involved.

Poor teaching can be a factor, but in a lot of cases, I think teacher just doesn't have enough time, resources etc to extend children more.
But imo, early exposure to more problem solving skills can lead children to more future success with maths in general.
My ds was hyperlexic, and number mad at earlier age. I didn't have a clue how to guide him. My ds's reception teacher has slowed him down, and taught to think alternative ways rather than just calculating. Also I got a lot of advice on MN how to extend him at home, especially not just going forward but extend sideways. Without all these, I think he just ended up being good at remembering formulas and mental maths, that's all.