Primary school maths getting difficult for our kids ..

[harold81]

blog.mathsloth.com/2017/08/worldtop10elementarymathsqns.html

My DD ( primary 1 ) tried the list of questions .. and was 3 for 10. She managed the U.S. question, but the Hong Kong and China's primary 1 questions were slightly too difficult for her. The UK ones - she already knew when her teacher covered briefly with the class.

I have a feeling the standard of maths is unnecessarily high for primary school kids. The world's schools seem to think otherwise.. wonder how kids in other countries cope ..

Thanks - is that the same in this years KS1 SATS for the 2 mark questions, two marks for being right, even if you wrote nothing to show method?

It isn't a SATs question just one from a commercial publisher

sir, my ds had exactly same problem, and he was told repeatedly to show his workings since start of reception.
I think it's easier to get used to doing it from early on.
Seems like if you are working at the greater depth, you have to explain reasoning for the answer.

In the actual test similar questions are awarded full marks if the answer is correct (without working out) and half marks for an incorrect answer but correct working out if that makes sense

*you have to be able to explain

Not in the tests

irvineoneohone she could explain verbally the method, but doesn't know how to write it down - presumably writing all the words she'd use verbally is something she doesn't want to do, when she says she can't.

DD has only ever done one "test" at school in the two years so far, just near the end, and it was all pretty simple questions - so I don't think she really had an idea on what was supposed to be written. Explaining the method verbally was all she'd presumably done before. She just wanted to try the SATs, so we killed half an hour of rainy day.

It was nothing to do with the test, actually.
I think it comes handy later on, when they need to solve more complicated problems. And she doesn't need to use any words, just numbers and signs.

Totally disagree with the 12 timetable being useful. I only know up to the 9 timetable and it is more than enough for me to cope with pre university Maths. England is one of a few countries that teach up to 12. In Asia, most countries I know only teach up to 9.

@sirfredfredgeorge the working out thing is supposed to help the kids. No matter how good they are with numbers,sometimes they'll get distracted or simply count wrong. If there's just an incorrect answer then there are no marks. If there is a method with an incorrect answer(64 or 66 in your example) then at least they get one point. Seeing it written down also helps. But it's hard to convince small children that knowing why that is the answer is just as important as the correct answer.

"I just know"
"I did it in my head"
"It's right isn't it?" Don't count though

The Singapore question seems related to the petitle circle problem in www.gordonburgin.com/walkthroughs/petite%20circle%20sum%20walkthrough.html, but slightly different ..

The point Rafa and I are making is that your link about Britain turning to Chinese textbooks is that the information is outdated and inaccurate.
I'm not sure why you are relying on US sources but they are unsound. I suggest you look at the Maths curriculum/ programme of study if you want to know what a child is actually learning (since you say P1 I'm not sure which country you're actually in).

In KS1 the working out could be pictures. Many schools use CPA http://www.mathsnoproblem.co.uk/concrete-pictorial-abstract

These are the type of problems my Y1 class did last term

My country only teaches up to 10 times table. But I disagree that 12 times table isn't useful. I totally agree with kestrel. 12 is such an important number often comes up in real life.

Here is a BBC article on the way the UK is looking towards China and other East Asian countries for inspiration in maths teaching.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38568538

The motivation for this is that countries in East Asia come out on top in the Pisa Maths Test rankings.

uk.businessinsider.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-of-math-science-reading-skills-2016-12

The UK is quite far down the league table and is trying to pick up some tips from the highest-performing countries – which are all East Asian.

One way to emulate successful countries is to adopt some of their teaching methods. Of course some of the factors involved in maths achievement are cultural and difficult to reproduce. There is a tendency for parents with an East Asian background to hold maths in particularly high regard and out-of-school-hours enrichment activities are common. Being a maths teacher is also a high-prestige position in the East whereas it’s not unusual to have a non-specialist teacher drafted in in the UK.

Another possible factor – and this is a controversial one – is that studies suggest East Asians may be innately better at visuo-spatial tasks.

Looking at the maths problems in the link provided in the OP, I am struck by the difference in ‘flavour’ between the Western and Eastern maths problems given.The problems from Western countries tend to be wordy and less sophisticated from a mathematical perspective. In contrast, those from Eastern countries seem to be testing pattern finding skills and are – to my mind at least – more difficult.

The first question in the link in the OP is from Japan and is typical of a more visual approach to maths. It shows 882 as the product of 42 and 21 through intersecting lines - using a technique somewhat related to the grid method of multiplication taught in schools here.

(I'm not Asian, by the way, just trying to be objective about the situation!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-30141426/chinese-maths-teachers-come-to-british-classrooms
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/shanghai-maths-teaching-exchange-opening-ceremony
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/13/chinese-teachers-bring-the-art-of-maths-to-english-schools

OutwiththeOutCrowd very good analysis !

The first problem https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_AJvshZmYPs

My school teaches Math through 'Inspire Maths'. We 'stupidly' started it mid way through the year. It actually highlighted the many, many gaps the children had in their learning.

Hoping for better success (and also because we are more familiar with it) from September.

The motivation has less to do with PISA rankings and a lot to do with government propaganda and winning votes.

Don't get me wrong there are ideas I like being introduced. But nobody actually cares about the dodgily compiled PISA 'league' table.

There has been some controversy over China being judged from a sample set that is not representative of the whole country - and as a consequence looking better than it actually is - but nevertheless there does seem to be a genuine achievement gap in maths skills between the East and West.

I went to US when I was 12. I was always mediocre at maths, but considered very able in US. Once back in my country, I was totally mediocre again!

One problem with questions that are too wordy is that it can disadvantage children who are struggling with reading.

China's sample set is not even representative of the areas it's supposed to be based on. That's before you get onto all the other issues regarding it's veracity.

Even if they were a useful yardstick to judge by I'd put money on the fact that the high attainment is mostly down to factors outside of school. There are fundamental differences in beliefs about education that aren't going to change overnight.