Primary school maths getting difficult for our kids ..

[harold81]

blog.mathsloth.com/2017/08/worldtop10elementarymathsqns.html

My DD ( primary 1 ) tried the list of questions .. and was 3 for 10. She managed the U.S. question, but the Hong Kong and China's primary 1 questions were slightly too difficult for her. The UK ones - she already knew when her teacher covered briefly with the class.

I have a feeling the standard of maths is unnecessarily high for primary school kids. The world's schools seem to think otherwise.. wonder how kids in other countries cope ..

And if a child can accurately calculate the answer in their head I see no reason to insist they write out every question.

mrz, I am not sure about your 2nd comment. I am so grateful that reception teacher insisted on showing workings. In fact, it was his target for all 3 terms.
Maybe it's not really needed in early maths so much, but later it becomes vital, with more complex numbers like fractions and decimals.
Yesterday when he was doing some question online, there was perfect example. He made a mistake, and checked his workings to find out where he went wrong. It was so clear, he has written 25 instead of 26(don't know why), so the answer should be wrong. And I have a chance to say check your answer/workings over before press "submit" button.

If a child is getting the wrong answer it's worth getting them to explain/show you how they arrived at the answer but is it really necessary if the child can give the correct answer?

mrz, I am not talking about a child child doing 5+ 5 =10.
There was a time my ds was asked to find out 49 x 49 by passing teacher. He gave the answer, teacher checked on the calculator and I asked him how he done that so quickly. He was able to explain to me, 50 x 50 - 50-49, which I assume he would have just said, "don't know", if he wasn't used to convert it into number sentences by writing workings.

Neither am I Irvine. This year I've taught Y1 children who could easily calculate some of the problems in the OP in their heads for example the Y2 bus question. Why ask them to write it out?

That yr2 problem is nothing complicated. I assume most able kids would be able to do it in their head. Showing workings are the problem for kids like mine.
I normally follow your advice, but with this, I would follow my ds's reception teacher(maths specialist)'s advice. It has done him good, so far.

It's much more complicated than multiplying 49X49 actually because it requires multiple steps

Not really.
step1)63 + 19 = 82

step2)82- 17 = 65

or
step1)63 -17 = 46

step2)46 +19 = 65.

step1)50 x 50 = 2500

step2)2500 -50 = 2450

step3)2450 - 49 = 2401

Unless the child is able to do 49 x 49 in his head in just one step, which clearly isn't my ds.

step1)50 x 50 = 2500

step2)2500 -50 = 2450

step3)2450 - 49 = 2401

That's if you choose to work it out that way it's one step if you do
49x49
Some children can complete complex long multiplication and division in their heads in a single step.

It’s the verbiage that makes the question in the OP about people getting on and off trains seem harder than the calculation performed by Irvine’s DS.

Add some verbiage to his calculation and it also starts to look complicated.

There are 50 children on a school bus. Each has a bag of sweets. Jack, who is one of the children, shouts, “Hey, I know, let’s all swap sweets!” So each child gives the others one of their sweets and all the children, showing remarkable self-control, stuff the sweets they are given into their blazer pockets. Jack gets off the bus at the next stop and goes home.

How many sweets are there in total in the pockets of the children on the bus?

The calculation to be performed is 49x49 but you have to cut through the verbal padding to see it.

"Some children can complete complex long multiplication and division in their heads in a single step."

I already said not my ds, since he uses multiple steps to do it. So, be able to show(write) how he works out help him. But maybe not for the children who can do it in one step.

And I totally agree with out. My ds had difficulty working out word problems at early stage.
So, I was wrong to assume and say simple 49 x 49 and the yr2 word problem are similar difficulty. Sorry.

Which is why I said if a child can correctly answer in their head I don't see the need to ask them to write it out.

mrz, I get what you are saying. But the child who can do multi digit x and / calculation in their head in single step that common? There must be someone like "Matilda", but I doubt you meet them often in real life.
I assume most of the kids who are good at mental maths uses some sort of strategy to work out rather than get the answer instantly.(I may be wrong, of course.)

I am grateful that the teacher made him show his workings from the start, even for the easy questions. Now he is used to it. Otherwise he cannot figure out where he went wrong in the process.

It wouldn't be every child in the class but neither would I class a child who has a natural aptitude for a subject as like "Matilda". Some kids just see the patterns and relationships between numbers and Some will need to use concrete equipment and others will need to set it out step by step. The more automatic it is the easier it is to focus on the problem

I think that there are a number of reasons why writing down your method is good practice.

One is that students can have difficulty identifying or articulating how they got to an answer in simple cases. They might say that it’s obvious or it just is. But it’s important to be able to break down the mental processes involved so that a general method can be extracted and applied to harder examples.

Another reason is having something on paper makes checking easier for the student and teacher and helps the teacher to pinpoint any weaknesses in understanding.

A further reason is that visible working out on paper – or for younger children a verbal description of the series of steps involved - can show the depth of understanding a student has. Showing working also allows credit to be given for a partial solution.

For example, looking at the primary 1 question from China in the OP.

AB + AB = BCC

What numbers do A, B and C represent?

Wei might have realised that the sum of two two-digit numbers will be less than 200 so B has to be less than 2 – and also can’t be 0 of course – and therefore has to be a 1, so C must be 1+1 = 2, giving BCC as 122, so AB must be 61.

Chen might have decided to do a bit of trial and error to see if he could find something to fit. He might have tried B=1 to see where that got him and then argued in a similar manner to Wei after that.

Both students arrived at the correct result – but only Wei’s more insightful approach shows the solution is unique.

A third student Dong might have realised that AB has to be bigger than 49 – the MN number of the day - since BCC is a 3-digit number but didn’t get any further than that. Nevertheless, he’s doing better than the student who couldn’t think of anything relevant to contribute to solving the problem.

If a teacher only gets to see/hear final correct/incorrect answers, some vital information about the differing abilities of students is lost.

I really wish you are my ds's maths teacher, Out.

"Wei might have realised that the sum of two two-digit numbers will be less than 200 so B has to be less than 2 – and also can’t be 0 of course – and therefore has to be a 1," and how would you expect a 6 year old to record that?

mrz as mentioned in my earlier post, I'd be happy to have Wei give me a verbal description of the steps she took to solve the problem. I wouldn't expect a formal written proof from a six year old.

It's funny that you know there are 6 years old who can do complex mental calculation by just one step, but can't imagine there may be 6 years old who can articulate their thought process.

*cross posted.

I know some will be able to explain their thinking and how they arrived at the answer but I don't know any who could write it down.

"I'd be happy to have Wei give me a verbal description of the steps she took to solve the problem. I wouldn't expect a formal written proof from a six year old."
Which is exactly what I've been saying

Not sure if you did, you only said there are children who can do it in their head so no point of showing working out?

"And if a child can accurately calculate the answer in their head I see no reason to insist they write out every question."