dd1 refused a place at both preferred schools, I need to appeal....HELP!

[junkinmytrunk]

dd1 has been refused a place for bothe preferred schools and given a place at a horrible school further away.

My 1st choice is where she currently attends nursery but is a very overly subscribed school.

2nd choice is the school round the corner that has had a lot of money put into it and is on the up but is normally undersubscribed.

I will have to walk past both these schools the attend where she has been placed.

I'm so angry, its the last thing I need right now. I was expecting to be refused a place at her school but really thought she'd get in round the corner. It just doesn't make any sense.

Need to fill in the form to appeal but don't know where to start!

Sorry - me again.
Has occured to me that you might have got H School? In which case, worse commute.

But good school.

Clary, I'm in London and in our borough (I think maybe all the London boroughs?) there isn't a 'catchment area', the school goes by:

1. siblings
2. special needs
3. proximity to the school

idlemum, I know people abuse the sibling rule. They also abuse the 'proximity to school' rule without siblings - I know a mum who has already moved and is getting her post redirected to her new home while she waits to hear if her child has got a place. dp says I should 'shop' her to the school but to be honest I think we're all fighting for places for our kids and I can't see the woods for the trees any more.

If you didn't have the sibling rule though how would a mum manage to get two primary age kids to two different schools on time?

But if it went solely on catchment then there should not really be a need to get two or more children to schools as both/all should get in the same school? Only a problem if you are close to the edge and get a place one year but not another due to a higher number of closer children.

such a difficult situation, but i think the sibling rule is abused; I like the idea of how long you have lived there being a factor but that discriminates against people who have to move eg for jobs.

I think the sibling rule has to stay in place although if dd misses out on her place this year it will be due to the high volume of siblings I know. I can't see how it can be otherwise though because as you say there may well be genuine sibling needs in a family who get pipped at the post by someone moving closer to the school than them.

In fact I'm sure all this is worked out as fairly for all as possible by the council. However you look at it somebody is going to be unhappy about the decisions.

purpleduck - it's often the case not that the school is amazing (although ours is very good) but that the othrs around are not much cop. Choosing to move out of catchment is more often a negative rather than a positive decision.

We were in catchment but refused a place on the 30-pupil rule because we moved house after the place allocation - tried to transfer and were refused. We eventually got it. The school has quite a few coming from out of catchment, which is why it is over-subscribed.

I don't think the councils act fairly at all. All they look at is the total places available over a number of schools regardless of which schools people want to go to. Our local school is oversubscribed because the council is not letting it expand ( I thought that was meant to be the original idea of so called choice -that the good schools would be allowed to expand ) because they want to force people to go to the undersubscribed schools.This means people are using their cars when if they had ben able to go to their local school they would have walked.

I agree to an extent, idlemum. But the root of the problem is surely people choosing to go out of catchment in the first place. if nobody did, and everyone went to their local school, nobody would need to use cars! (I realise that is slightly "devil's avocado" of me.)

At least this little guy hasn't had catchment area madness to contend with. There's a lot to be said for it!!

imaginary friend - the point you made about the person using a false address - in st albans a child was withdrawn from a school (secondary) when it was discovered his parents had rented in a good catchment area

they had to go to court and were charged with fraud

at some point they will get found out so she is crazy to try it - it sounds like people already know - what an awful thing to put a child through

New Girl,

I live in St Albans and luckily my daughter got in to one of the 3 schools who were asked to go to 2 form entry this year (but only because an extra form is opening).

There was a rather torrid meeting held at the school in the week before the allocations were released, attended by someone from the LEA - it emerged at the meeting that the county calculate the numer of school places needed by reference to doctors' records - but do not review addresses of flats as they assume that anyone who lives in a flat does not have children. Hello??!!

I think they have realised that this is completely unrealistic, as a governor of a St Albans primary told me that two other schools have been already been approached to take on an extra form each for 2008/09.

(Apologies if this is moving away from the OP but there seemed to be a few Herts people on this thread).

I totally agree Unquietdad - everyone should have to go to their local school but if this is compulsory then the school must be big enough to accomodate all local children.
There is the argument that the environment is at the end of the day the most important issue so we should all walk to school.

Hi Pooka, WOW! Yes, I got S School and I live on WR! WHo are you!??

I almost changed to H school as 2nd choice right at the end, but decided that although good school, the drive would be a nightmare. Now worried I made the wrong the decision, but I'm sure S will be fine. Heard good things about it.

I too will appeal, but same reason as you so as you say, nothing unusual. So sad though. But will be hassling R admissions sec after easter when they get the waiting list !

Have you accepted S then? Did you look around?

Have accepted S, though will keep R on the back burner. Did look round. Think the fact that I went there tainted it - felt rather small, but think that that was because when I was there I was much shorter! Also the head of R is very good at PR and the open day at R was so so slick. Much more so than S which was more of a "here we are. Have a look around".

Honestly - have been doing searches of league tables and so on, and it seems very much on a par with R. The journey to H would just be appalling. No chance of walking whatsoever and baaaad traffic.

I think I know of you via the lovely woman who looks after ds when dd is at pre-school. C? With dd and ds (O and S)? She was trying to make me feel better about missing out, by telling me about all the other people in the same boat. My dd is L and have a son, 18months, called T. If you are who I think you are, are you going out for a curry next Weds? Because I might be there too!

I honestly honestly think you may be lucky and get in by January. Lots can change between now and then. And it could be worse. I know of someone who got none of the top 3 choices and got PP.

Look at me, typing in code!

Ah, you're S? C mentioned you and said how disappointed you were. It'd be great if you could join us next Wed eve - we can have a good old moan! I have dd L and ds too, but he'd just 11 months, so it's a while before he'd go to R pre-school, but I would like him to go there as dd has been/is so happy there. Logistically it'd be a real pain toing and froing between S and R. But I hear S has a pre-school, so will probably check that out.

Thanks for your optimism in saying that we could get a place before January., There's always a bit of hope I guess, but R said the other day that last year no-one got in on the waiting list - everyone accepted their places and everyone stayed.

Well, we can speculate forever - as you say, S is on a par with R (I looked at Ofsted too) and it really could be a lot worse. I know of 4 kids from R nursery now going to S. Nice to know we're not on our own.

I hope you can make it next week - how funny we should 'meet' on here. I've only ever posted twice in my life!

hi evie mum! i'm glad you got a place that you needed!

my dd is a few years older but it was so awful for many of my neighbours that I really felt for them - its not fair that it is so stressful for parents

yes local paper sait today that windermere and bernards heath would need to increase

now wouldn't it be great if they turned the evershed site into a primary!

sorry to take over!

That's me! How shocked was I earlier (while desperately trying to recall whether I'd been particularly inflammatory or indiscreet on other threads).
How odd to think that you're just up the road typing away.
I was devastated. Still am really, but more for me than for dd - she'll be fine, it's me that'll have the extra journey. I do have a habit of making long-term plans and I can't stand having to rethink. Grrr.
Will hope to see you next week.

I'm exactly the same - have my nice cosy routine all worked out, then someone goes and changes it! Kids are very adaptable and I'm sure ours will be just as happy at S as at R. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but I do believe that everything happens for a reason, so hopefully this will work out the best scenario in the end......or something like that!

So odd to think you're just up the road - isn't the net a wonderful thing, and Mumsnet of course!

See you for a ruby, I hope!

Sooooo, have many people here got a place after going on a waiting / 'continued interest' list following an initial rejection? I assume the foundation school DS wants will operate its own list, using its admissions criteria. So who has the final authority to decide if you're offered a place? And are you allowed to speak to them direct? I need to know EVERYTHING! (Knowledge is power, and all that... )

bump - anyone?

I don't know about foundation schools. But last year at dd's primary school everyone who had been in the nursery and not offered a place immediately but gone onto the waiting list got a place by the start of term. But it was a much easier year to get in, very few siblings.

I've had a scan through this thread - has anyone mentioned schoolsappeal.co.uk (I think). There's loads of info, and you can join for a fiver and get loads more! Used it at primary level last year and it helped me massively preparing my appeal.

If we weren't successful by the new term, I decided to homeschool until a place come up, which the school was very supportive of as DS was already at nursery. In the end, it didn't come to that. We were offered a place through the waiting list by July.

After siblings, proximity to the school is the next criteria. Ours too is very popular with a very dense population of 4/5 year olds in the immediate vacinity!

Everyone thought I was mad - I wrote to my MP, contacted the Council pretty much daily (built up quite a nice relationship with them actually, infact the lady I spoke to most regularly wanted to tell me herself that a place had come up - either she wanted to give me the good news personally or make sure I got off her case!)
People were still being offered places on the first day of the new school year. Its still very early on in the process, so there is plenty of hope. I rejected the offer I had because I knew it wasn't what I wanted and knew someone else would, and hung on for the school I really wanted DS (and ultimately his younger siblings) to go to. Good luck with it

Not sure how removing the sibling rule will help- ds3 got in on it but as ds1 is SN, I couldn't leave him alone before school to go elsewhere and there are no breakfast clubs in this village.

Tu could also say we leapfrogged by moving in- but we moved here for completely different reasons mid term, DS had been in the school we wanted but we ahd to move for careers. It had nothing to do with leapfrogging- we just moved closer to the school than other, not calculating though. I wasnt botherewd which one they went to (2 decent schools), LEA made decision.

I do hope you all get your first choices. DS3 did get his on the sibling rule, though as he is waiting for SN diagnosis would have done anyway. But actually we are rather desperate for him to go to SN school which is a whole new battle . So all these poor parents at school are looking at us enviously, and we know full well that ds1 would be better off elsewhere, but thats totally out of our hands at this stage.

3 children in dd class came in from continuing interest list (out of 30) - one just one week before he started in the jan

also, one has just moved (two terms in) so another place will now be avail to someone on the continuing interest list

it was just normal criteria - no special church school entry criteria

I suppose the question is, how long is someone prepared to wait for a school place to come up? Places here are allocated in March, but I can't imagine the stress of waiting another six months on the basis that a place might become available. What happens - legally as well as practically - if the new term starts and no school has been accepted?

Well I have accepted my third choice school but am staying on the waiting list for my preferred school. A place may or may not come up, but at least in January dd has somewhere to go, and I may even ask to stay on the waiting list beyond reception.