dd1 refused a place at both preferred schools, I need to appeal....HELP!

[junkinmytrunk]

dd1 has been refused a place for bothe preferred schools and given a place at a horrible school further away.

My 1st choice is where she currently attends nursery but is a very overly subscribed school.

2nd choice is the school round the corner that has had a lot of money put into it and is on the up but is normally undersubscribed.

I will have to walk past both these schools the attend where she has been placed.

I'm so angry, its the last thing I need right now. I was expecting to be refused a place at her school but really thought she'd get in round the corner. It just doesn't make any sense.

Need to fill in the form to appeal but don't know where to start!

Our appeal forms wont be sent out until May, but which time the initial horsetrading of people declining offers/shuffling around should have ceased. The appeals would then be in June. Fortunately dd doesn't start until January.

Galaxy - sounds to me like you have a rather good case.

Mine sort of hinges on where in the school they measure from. Large site, 2 heaviliy used gates, one at the front used less than the one at the rear. We're about 70m closer to the rear gate and that may have made all the difference (we're 0.46km from the school.Catchment was 0.35km). Can't find any information in the admissions booklet about where they measure from, and how it is done. Have had lovely conversation with the school secretary. Tis a foundation school so they deal with their own appeals once the common application period ends at the end of April.

We're 20th in the waiting list though, but 2 places aleady been turned down, so up to 18th. Still don't hold out any hopes really.

If anyone has any advice it would be appreciated. I am lucky though in that the school I have been allocated is OK - just will be a logistical nightmare ferrying ds to preferred school site and dd 20mins walk in completely the opposite direction. Gah!

Good luck Junkinmytrunk, it's a horrible situation to be in. My DD's best friend has just been turned down for the secondary school that most of the kids from my DD's school go to, it's a Catholic secondary, and is the best around apart from the Grammar. We're not sure why she was turned down, as she fits all the criteria - baptised, attending Catholic primary, Holy Communion done etc. but it seems that she may not have been taken to church enough when it really mattered.... and there's another scenario altogether. She sat the Grammar test but failed and has been offered a place at our shitty catchment secondary.

Another girl I know has also been 'sent' there by the LEA (she's not at our primary)as her Mum put as her first preference a school that she knew was out of catchment for, but really wanted her DD to go there. She was turned down. Put Grammar as second choice, failed the 11 plus, and put the Catholic secondary as third choice. The Cat. Sec. aren't even going to look at third choices, and the girl and her parents are not churchgoers. This Mum's Stepdad is a teacher, and he told her that less than 10 per cent of kids get the places they want on appeal. But this may not be the case in your area, I don't know. Good luck anyway.

Appeal success rate is about 1 in 3, I think. But this is a national average and doesn't take account of regional trends.

It's often the case that people aree appealing because of a negative wish - to get OUT of a "shitty catchment secondary" as the previous poster eloquently puts it! - rather than a positive one. (Of course, it may only be shitty because all the decent families cream off into private, grammar and faith... but maybe that's an argument for another time....)

In the appeal you muast stress the reasons you WANT your child to go to a particular school, not the reasons you DON'T want the one you've been given.

Well I've spent a lot of time thinkng about it today.
I know I won't get my first choice so don't see the point in appealing about that one. Its the most overly subscribed school in the borough apparently and we just won't get in.

Now comes my 2nd choice.... it also has had a bad reputation but a lot of money has been pumped into the school and its supposedly on the up and is literally round the corner.
I don't know why suddenly there's no places available as last year they were incredibaly undersubscribed.

On the whole I think its probably on a par with the school that she's actually got, its just the school she's got is nearly 2 miles away and I don't have use of the car most days.

Not sure at the moment whether just to send her where she's been given a place rather than fight to get her into a similar level school all be it nearer.

I've explained to dd1 that there's no room at her current school and she understands that she has to go to a different one but I think it was the bribary of her fifi mag that did that......

Oh what to do, what to do?????

Find out about waiting lists for both schools and then decide what to do
Don't despair or panic...
My situation was like scummy's, dd initially refused place at preferred school, which found her a space about 5 wks later. I think 10 (possibly as many as 14) children who were on the waiting list were subsequently offered places in reception.
One friend happened to ring the school sec in the runup to start of autumn term, and was told a place had become available and would her child like it? My friend is convinced her child got the place bcs she rang at the right moment. So I'd say it's totally worth doing a bit of humble buttering up.

you don't need to 'fight'

accept her place on the 3rd choice school

then put her name down on waiting list for BOTH schools nearer to you - in fact you can put her on waiting list for a hundred schools if you like

then see what happens

my friend was phoned with a place for her first choice school in the last week of December term to start in the Jan - so she accepted it - took the other uniform back to the shop and her dd started at first choice school

Ds1 was originally rejected for 3 out of the 4 schhools to which we applied - one of which was our catchment school but was heavily over-subscribed. It was also our prefered school. We acepted the offer we were given and asked to be put on the waiting list for the other 3. During the summer holidays 2 of the 3 wiating list schools offered him a place and he ended up going to our first choice school - the heavily over-sbscribed one.

Unquietdad, mine may not have been the most eloquent choice of words, but trust me, the school I mentioned is shit. The thing that lets it down is the teaching. There are nice girls there (it's an all girls secondary) and in many of those cases, they're not Grammar material, and not eligible for the church school, so it's their only option. The Head there was sacked from another failing secondary, and only got this posting because she 'knew people.' It's just failed it's ofsted for the second time (that I know of.) I know people who know girls there that do want to work, but can't due to the levels of distraction and bad behaviour, which the teachers aren't doing anything about. Some girls are eating freely in lessons and texting too.

Yes, definately worth putting her name on the waiting lists. If it's the same as it is here, they start taking names on the waiting list about now, then you stay on the list (if you're not offered a place fairly soon) until December, when you then have to re-register on the waiting list. What you may find then, is that a lot of people have started their children at other schools, so then don't re-register for the waiting lists they were on, causing the length of the list to reduce, and places more likely to become available. Keep her on the list at the other schools, you've got nothing to lose, and you can phone the schools regularly to find out your position on the list.

Hi,

Really interesting thread - this is a situation DS will probably be in next year, so i'm picking up tips early!
One question: when you go on a waiting list, are places offered to whoever got to the top of the list first, regardless of where they live, or are places allocated to children on the waiting list who live nearest the school?
Thanks in advance!

well I accepted the place and I'm putting her on the waiting list for the school where she currently attends nursery.

No idea whether a place will become available but she seems ok with the idea of moving, so I'm going to stop stressing.

I would love to know how they allocate places because this time it seems crazy. A liitle girl in dd1's nursery has been refused a place and she lives 2 streets away yet another child that lives further away has, no sibling at the school already, so how do they decide.....madness!

Yonks ago, I didn't get accepted to out local secondary school and my Mum appealed. She went on the basis that the only other school I could get to was 2 bus journeys away and played up the wasting studying time travelling aspect.

Cuppatea - I think "leapfrogging" happens. So if you are 3rd on the list but someone moves in nearer to the school, they slip in at 3rd and nudge you down to 4th. Is that what you meant?

Each LEA has its own hierarchy of criteria, though, so it is worth checking. Will probably be on your local council's website. Ours goes:

1 - SEN/looked-after children
2 - attendance at linked infant school
3 - catchment area
4 - siblings
5 - contributory feeder school
6 - other applicants
7 - tie-breakers: measured by distance as crow flies.

Re the mystery leapfroggers: good health reasons, probably. Eg asthma, if there's a case that the preferred school is a healthier walk away, ie via a quieter road or through a park. Or if the mum is suffering from PND.
GPs need to provide written backup of course.

Siblings are the big problem around here: if you haven't already got one child at school, you can forget it. We live really close, though, so that should play in our favour on the waiting list. Trouble is they measure home to school by 'shortest reasonable public road/pedestrian route'. But they don't state where on the school grounds they measure from (and the grounds are pretty vast). Called the school and they don't know where to measure from either (best guess being front entrance). Anyone else experience these nit-picking problems??? Arghhhhhhhhh

I thought this was supposed to be the same from next year:

1. Sn
2. sibling within catchment
3. catchment
4. sibling outside of catchment
5. all other eg anyone else who isn't in catchment.

the waiting lists are based on the same criteria

so basically who lives nearest is highest on the list - not when parent puts name on list or any other reason

but some kids will get in on appeal/go up the list if a parent has a medical reason but this tends to be a very good reason eg serious pnd as already mentioned

our school did stipulate where distance was measured from - the infant playground gate! so it could be worth asking county or school

Just to clear things up - i'm going off at a tangent to the OP by blethering on about secondary admissions. The place DS wants to go is a small-ish foundation school which sets its own admissions policy. It's vastly oversubscribed and alot of people have a sibling there already - siblings are criteria no.3, after 1/ children in public care and 2/ medical grounds/SN. Any places left after those 3 are filled are like gold dust. Ho hum, waiting list here we come.....

This is a fab thread - thanks to you all.
DS has been turned down for our two local schools, and not been offered anywhere (letter actually says 'we cannot offer you a place at a local school')

apparently LA have underestimated school places by 230 (how??)

the schools with vacancies are two bus rides away, each way. Also have dd who is 2,5 and will be in same sit next year. She goes to nursery so I am supposed to get 4 buses to get ds into schools, then put dd in nursery before getting to work myself. . am at my wits end.

I know like it seems like the end of the World but it will work out OK in the end.

We were offered a place at the Faith school today which needless to say I accepted without hesitation!

that's fantastic news galaxy, really pleased for you.

Thanks ... had a face like a Cheshire Cat all day and even the builders getting cement on my carpet couldn't wipe it off!

afaik, to be succesful on appeal you have to prove that the admissions criteria in your favour were not applied properly. i.e you have to prove that someone further away got a place or that your special case is pressing enough. If you are citing any medical or SN reasons, you will need written detailed evidence from you doctor and other involved professionals.

Even so, we were turned down on appeal by a school which has no stairs (we needed to apply for 'flat access' schools) in a school where SN was the first admission priority, on the grounds that the DLA now obliges all schools to have an 'action plan' to be accessible within 5 years!! You can't get in by sheer force of will, as if they let you in, they will be obliged to let in anyone else who claims that they have the same or greater case than you.

I think things are different in different boroughs, and in different categories of school, community, foundation, faith, voluntary assisted, voluntary controlled etc - certainly the secretaries seem to have a very good nose for how strong the competition is and how likely a place is to come up.

I know several people who have been turned down for the most extremely competitive schools and then been offered a place within a day or two of term starting.

And someone who had no place at all until a week or so before school, and then got offered a place in a truly wonderful school, not the very nearest to them, but still reachable. (she appealed to a different school from us on the grounds that her anaphalactic shock level allergy prone dd should go to a school with dinner ladies, not one where they self serve, andother relevant factors about very serious allergies - and she got turned down. And her dad is a lawyer - they appealed as strongly as they could).

I was told by my dd's school that if you don't get offered a place, get your name immediately on the waiting list which is set up by the council then sent to the school, so it is worth gentle schmoozing with the secretaries.

Ooh, all this makes me nervous. I'm not expecting to hear about whether or not dd's got a place in our preferred primary school until the end of April. It's an incredibly popular school and we're close to it but not as close as some people!

We're 0.26 of a mile away. Does that count, generally as 'close' in people's experience?

Depends how densely populated the area around the school is. We thought we were OK at 0.31 but they discounted the footpath we use as it doesn't have street lamps