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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

dd1 refused a place at both preferred schools, I need to appeal....HELP!

117 replies

junkinmytrunk · 26/03/2007 09:02

dd1 has been refused a place for bothe preferred schools and given a place at a horrible school further away.

My 1st choice is where she currently attends nursery but is a very overly subscribed school.

2nd choice is the school round the corner that has had a lot of money put into it and is on the up but is normally undersubscribed.

I will have to walk past both these schools the attend where she has been placed.

I'm so angry, its the last thing I need right now. I was expecting to be refused a place at her school but really thought she'd get in round the corner. It just doesn't make any sense.

Need to fill in the form to appeal but don't know where to start!

OP posts:

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Blu · 27/03/2007 21:38

Yes, in our LEA the 'proximity' rules spcify every detail about footpaths, lighting, and the exact point considered to be the front entrance of the house you live in - can't remember if it is front door or front gate!

newgirl · 28/03/2007 10:40

xoxo

in st albans this year (for sept intake) they were short of 90 places - as a result they are building three new classrooms - one each at three schools

one will then increase further next year, but the others will not as they think demand will go down again

complain and campaign strongly

good luck

janinlondon · 28/03/2007 13:43

Blu you're right - it is front door of your actual property. School told me of a case where an upstairs flat lost out in priority to the downstairs one in a house in our street. Of course in our year no one in the street got in at all.....!

imaginaryfriend · 28/03/2007 15:25

But, generally, is under 0.30 of a mile considered relatively close to the school? We have only one other closer school which is Roman Catholic so we're not eligible for a place there.

imaginaryfriend · 28/03/2007 15:26

And what about 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices on your form? Do they get taken into account? My 2nd choice is really quite far in comparison, my 3rd choice even further, and 4th choice reasonably close.

NiceCupOfTea · 28/03/2007 17:10

Found out today that this year, absolutely no one got in on proximity due to all the siblings taking every last place.

idlemum · 28/03/2007 17:28

I do sympathise Nicecupoftea especially as many of those siblings will probably be living further away from the school than your child. I know most people would disagree but I think giving siblings preference is unfair on first-born and only children.

newgirl · 28/03/2007 17:36

imaginary friend - 0.3 miles sounds close but if 10 kids live nearer, they will get in first - the best true guide is where your neighbours go

the guideline for considering 2nd 3rd etc in our booklet was 'you are most likely to get your nearest school' and this was the case for us. Also some friends who did not put down their nearest school got it anyway as they were too far from their first three places, so best be sensible in your choices

xoxo · 28/03/2007 18:58

newgirl - thanks for info on st albans being short of 90 places. here is leafy west london they do it properly and c**k up to the tune of 230 places. Thats a LOT of spare classrooms . A few of us are kicking up as big a fuss as we can and the LEA (who say they did not know of the problem until last week ) are meeting schools with a view to 3 of them taking on bulge classes. I can't work out the numbers as by my count that still leaves 140 kids with no places - another 5 classes!
I hate that I've been put into the position where I have to yell and stamp - it's so draining and does not come naturally, but we are so angry about this we feel there is no other way. One lady has been told to 'be quiet and not make a fuss'

imaginaryfriend · 28/03/2007 22:28

nicecupoftea I'm worried about that as I've been told that this year is sibling-heavy, well, half of it is - the kids who will go into Reception from January onwards are almost all siblings. Dd's due to go in in September but I know she'll be competing against all of those.

I'm going to be on tenterhooks until the end of April.

paranoidaboutschools · 29/03/2007 10:03

xoxo, do you know which schools will be taking bulge classes? Just out of interest.
Hope you get a place at a school you like near you. It's awful, isn't it? I was once left without a school place in a different borough, but eventually got ds into one of my preferred schools.
230 children is a LOT though, even if some go to independent schools, and traditionally quite a few people hand back state places, certainly not all 230 families have the money to do so.

Many young families move to the borough because of the good primaries, so I'm sure just looking at birth rates in this borough wouldn't have helped the council/LEA. However, surely they must have known it since the closing date, not just for the last week. Again, good luck!!

newgirl · 29/03/2007 11:27

xoxo - it makes me so cross - they must have this info from doc surgeries etc

very best of luck and it has worked out here, so fingers crossed for you

UnquietDad · 29/03/2007 12:03

newgirl - I think what happens is, yes, they have the info, and work on the basis that there are, say 5000 kids born in a town or district in 2002 and work out that 5000+ school places will be available, so "that's OK".

What they miss is the way these families will distribute themselves - people head for the best schools. Not rocket science - we all know it - but LEAs always assume that having enough capacity "within the system" is going to be enough.

In my city there are over-subscribed schools on one side of the city and emoty classrooms on the other. It's mad.

loveverona · 29/03/2007 14:48

Hey Pooka - I thinnk I read something from you on Mumsnet the other day about Raglan School in Bromley. Is this the one you didn't get?? If so I didn't either and am very sad. My DD goes to Raglan Nursery. I'm sure I know you??!!

loveverona · 29/03/2007 14:54

Pooka, have just read your last entry on this thread. Sounds like you're in exactly the same situation as me. We are .44km from the school and someone on the next road got in. But I was told they measure it door to door, ordnance survey, and go down to 3 decimal points, so you can be literally a fraction of a metre out and miss getting in. My DS is down for the nursery too, so I really wanted Raglan as I'll now have to ferry to and fro, unless the waiting list comes up trumps. Can't believe we're already into this have they got in/haven't they situation before they've even started school! As I tell my DD, you can't always have everything you want!!

newgirl · 29/03/2007 20:06

unquietdad - i think that was the case here - lots of parents moved towards the best schools.

now in a perfect world, wouldn't it be great if all the schools were desirable

off to day dream

imaginaryfriend · 29/03/2007 20:08

But even someone moving close to the school isn't in with a chance when faced with a high sibling intake year are they? It seems that most people here who haven't got the school they wanted are living quite close ...

arcticwind · 29/03/2007 21:05

The major problem with sibling preference is that people live in an expensive are in a small house until the first child gets in, then move away to somewhere cheaper and bigger happy that their younger children will get in on the sibling policy!!!

So it is not even about those in the boro or locality as some can be miles away (someone at work does that - he lives miles away from the school in a different boro)

imaginaryfriend · 29/03/2007 21:07

Yes, I know lots of people who've done that. Rented close to the school til their child gets in, then moved way out and got all the siblings in after!

But, you know, we have to do what we have to do don't we?

purpleduck · 29/03/2007 23:35

at 33 kids in the class. Seriously, no matter how amazing the school is, surely ALL the children would not benefit by having too many children in the class...?

edam · 30/03/2007 00:01

Interesting about St Albans. Can only assume Unquiet is right that councils can't cope with complicated maths. My LEA - Herts - insists there are enough places in my town. Well, there are some empty places but at the one school that no-one wants their children to attend if they can possibly avoid it.

So they have refused to tell ds's school whether they can have the funding to introduce a two-form intake for the past two years and have now postponed the decision again! This school has to have mixed classes of different years because they have 45 children in each year. Madness.

Secondary admissions is even worse - huge row last year as they left 90 children in the town without school places here. We have four secondary schools so that's quite a lot of children to 'forget' to include. Lots of promises it would all be sorted out. This year, same problem again, except it's now 'only' 60 children!

Clary · 30/03/2007 00:10

Interesting thread. Quite shocking actually. Where are you all where there is all this problem? Is it like my sis who is "in catchment" for lots of schools?

Here in the E Mids city I live in AFAIK not one single primary refused a place to anyone in catchment last year. Are some of you actually in catchment and refused places? Or are the catchments not so clear cut as there are lots of schools in the area?

FWIW admissions criteria can vary; some schools (ours I think) favour sibs out of catchment over in-catchment no-sibs, which makes sense in the way that you can't really have children at 2 differnet schools...bit hard on the catchment area no sibs tho - that's if it was ever an issue. Are we just lucky? Are you all in London?

idlemum · 30/03/2007 09:09

But Imaginaryfriend that just proves how unfair the siblings rule is. It should be catchment children first and if over-subscribed within catchment then they should first look at how long people have actually lived within catchment which would stop people being able to move in and leapfrog everyone else. The other problem around here is that people move in and get a junior child in further up the school where there isn't the limit on class sizes and then they take advantage of the sibling rule and take up a place which should have gone to another local child.

pooka · 30/03/2007 09:22

Oh goodness Loveverona! Yes you are right - dd missed out on Raglan and is at the pre-school. To be honest, I'm pretty low on the list, and think might have missed the area by more than you.
I know of lots of people who just missed out. It is very sad.
Really can't get my head round the ferrying needed to get dd to S School and ds to Raglan, but really want him to go to the pre-school too IYSWIM. Luckily dh can prob step in, but.... if I walked would be about 4 miles a day as opposed to..... Grrr.
Blardy siblings rule. Pah.
Was at a meeting with the chap who runs the stationers in C Rd and he said that he had had a steady stream of sad mothers coming in saying they didn't get it.
Not sure if I know you, but maybe know of you? Do you live in WR? Also got S school?

pooka · 30/03/2007 09:24

Am going to appeal, but pretty certain not a hope - after all, how many other people are in the same situation (i.e younger sibling down for the pre-school, would rather not drive for school run and so on).
But if you have got S school, I really don't think that there is much between them in terms of performance, and it does have a field! Just a pain to get to when compared with R.
If only dd had been applying last year...

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