What would you make of this report?

[m0therofdragons]

Dd and her teacher seem to have clashed this year and last parents evening was the teacher listening her flaws (essentially all mine and dh's due to genetics). She's year 5.

Her report has come home and she is academically doing better than ever. She's usually above expected but is now one higher "well above" which only a few reach in the school. However behaviour wise she's marked really low for not following class rules. Clearly dd is a different dc at school as at home she's incredibly obedient (other 2 dc are not!). Dd likes rules that are clear and fair so it goes completely against her personality to deliberately disobey. I'm not letting her know exactly what it says as I genuinely think she'll be really upset her teacher thinks this of her.

Teacher just said she needs to understand others need help more than her so she has to wait. Dd says whenever she puts her hand up for help she's completely ignored as everyone else in the class needs more help than her. She feels invisible - I wonder if she's being naughty to get attention. She's quiet and focused so is an easy child to just let get on with it iyswim.

Dd loves school and I don't know how to deal with this.

Well instead of ignoring her because she can do stuff surely if there really is no one to go over the extension work with her the teacher could at least write a note in the homework diary suggesting they look into X so she can then do it the following day if she finishes the work in time?

You can't just ignore a child because they are able they are as deserving of help and support as anyone else if course a bored ignored child is going to act out sometimes at some point.

You really need to arrange to speak to the teacher to find out exactly what's going on

The only person who can tell you what behaviour they find inappropriate is the class teacher as they are the one seeing it every day. It isn't at all unusual for children to behave differently in school and home although this is sometimes down to different expectations of behaviour. I often have parents reporting their child is a little monster at home while good as gold in school

I think her teacher would struggle at my bil's inner city school if she can't manage this behaviour.
She's not unable to manage the behaviour. She made a judgement based on set criteria, which applies to the whole class. Your daughter didn't consistently follow the rules, therefore this was mentioned and given the relevant grading. I don't know why this is difficult to understand. You are trying to dissect it to prove there is something incorrect about this observation. As pp said, teachers wouldn't give an inaccurate, negative report, precisely because (as well as it being unprofessional) they would then have to spend valuable time defending this view from parents who don't actually see their child at work in the classroom regularly.

But then why was the report the first op had heard of it?

If this behaviour is so terrible and yet out of character surely she should have been told weeks ago?

"But then why was the report the first op had heard of it?" It isn't. The teacher has raised issues at previous parent consultations.

It's disappointing this is in the report - I would have expected there to have been an earlier conversation about how to address the way your DD asks for help.
I would also make sure you reread the report a lot and is this one single sentence? I pore over every detail and feel aggrieved by anything that I wasn't made aware of. Is there a place for you to comment in writing where you make it clear you want to work with the school but can't if you're not made aware of any issues.

I'm you mention that your DD doesn't cope well when the work gets challenging. I wonder if she has a fixed idea that being clever means racing to through the work and not making mistakes.

If she's got challenging work, maybe the teacher wants her to struggle and work out the more challenging work rather than whizzing through. I wonder if her putting her hand up is to ask for help on more difficult work but without having really tried it.
(This is just based on my experience of some higher ability students. I make a massive point that I'm not helping for x minutes until they've had a shot at it. Equally, they're all told that I expect them to find things difficult otherwise my lessons aren't good enough).

I work a lot with full on challenging behaviour.

I would be asking the teacher what your dd does- to explain precisely what your dd is doing - then take it from there. Other people's perceptions are everything when dealing with behaviours. Until you have concrete examples of what your did is doing (& what happened before & afterwards) you have no idea whether there really is an issue (clearly there is for this teacher - there may not be for another), how bad it is, why it might be happening and how it might be stopped.

If people can't give proper concrete examples then there is nothing you can do.

Well for whatever reason neither of them actually seem to know exactly what they have done. Until they do it's pointless saying anything because they can't change what they have no idea about.

If this behaviour is so terrible and yet out of character surely she should have been told weeks ago?
It's not. It's a low level consistent behaviour (I'm assuming) within the classroom which isn't disruptive to others. Doesn't matter if it's inconsistent with behaviour at home. Teachers can't bring up every little transgression all the time.

"It's disappointing this is in the report - I would have expected there to have been an earlier conversation" there was! The OP SATs the teacher spoke about it at length

If this was me and my child's report I probably would not give it too much thought. It's one teacher and one year. I'd have a word with you DC and remind that she needs to be mindful not to take up too much of the teachers time and to make sure she lets other less bright DC have a chance to answer questions etc.

I'd also praise for doing well and for any other good things mentioned on her report

Other than that I wouldn't worry about it at all. 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I'd wait and see how things go next year.

mrz I totally love and respect you but I said earlier conversations about what to 'do' to address it. One chat at parents' eve with no solutions or follow up means it shouldn't just be repeated in the report.

Not long to go until a fresh start with a new teacher now. I guess either she'll go into year 6 and all will be well and you can put it down to a clash, or there will continue to be problems and you'll know the teacher had a point and can work with the new teacher on how to deal with them.

I approached the teacher after the February report as that was the first we knew and I was deeply unhappy that dd had dropped 2 and 3 levels (out of 4) regarding behaviour - not that it has happened but that the teacher made no effort to talk to me and just slipped the report in dd's bag like the others. To me such a significant change should have been a phone call inviting me in rather than me seeing the report and going in.

Throughout march I asked for examples to help me understand but nothing was forthcoming other than dd dislikes PE and rather than join the game dd decided to be ball collector. I asked what happened when teacher asked her/told her to rejoin the game and teachers said "oh well she seemed happy so I didn't". I spoke to dd and explained how teachers plan lessons to ensure she can see dc development and it's important she joins in to which dd said "oh okay, I thought I was being helpful." The next session teacher confirmed dd joined in no problem. That was the only example she gave.

Hopefully it's either all fine in year 6 or teacher will be clearer where the issue lies. I think I'm frustrated not because I think dd is perfect but because I want to support her and school but can't. I'll just remember dd is happy.

the teacher made no effort to talk to me and just slipped the report in dd's bag like the others
With all due respect, that's what the report is for. You don't know what the other 29 or so said. Your dd sounds pretty good apart from that one aspect - the teacher can't catch every parent about a drop in effort /achievement.

With regards to the example of dd deciding not to join in a game, she really shouldn't be making decisions like that. The teacher had the rest of the class to sort out, if dd decided not to join in it may have been a case of leaving it because it would have detracted too much from the lesson for the rest of the pupils?

Of course dd should have joined in but she's 10 and not a perfectly programmed robot. That in itself isn't enough to cause the level on the report. Basically it's rated
1 above expectations
2 expected
3 below expectations
4 we'll bellow expectations

Dd has gone from mostly 1s with the odd 2 for behaviour down to mostly 3s and 4s. I think that's a clear point a teacher should have a conversation with a parent. As a parent, if I hadn't picked up on that I'd be a bit rubbish really.

Just as a query, is it 'Behaviour', pure and simple? Or is it headed as 'Learning Behaviour' or 'Effort / Behaviour' or similar?

I only ask because if it was a pure 'behaviour' heading, then I would expect a 3 or 4 to indicate genuinely poor behaviour - calling out, deliberately not following instructions, deliberately breaking school rules, being unkind to others etc.

However, if it is 'learning behaviour' or in any way linked to effort, then I can quite easily see a 3 or 4 being given to a child who is not naughty, and may be very able, but just isn't trying very hard to overcome a challenge, not listening attentively, easily distracted or off task, not actively seeking to improve but giving up etc.

What is it billed as on the report?

Totally agree with tiggy.

"but I said earlier conversations about what to 'do' to address it."
Perhaps the teacher hoped for parents to back her/him up^*

"^One chat at parents' eve with no solutions or follow up means it shouldn't just be repeated in the report."* I think it's evident from this thread the OP doesn't want solutions as there isn't a problem other than clash between the teacher and child.

I feel like people are being harsh on OP here.
The child thinks she is behaving well. To get her to change for the better OP would need some examples of what exactly she's doing wrong and how she can do it better. Those don't seem to have been forthcoming. So far we have one example where the child was trying to be helpful and it misfired, and the teacher thought it so minor they didn't even bother correcting it at the time.

It may be the case as some people have hypothesized (including OP?) that the child is getting her extension work then constantly asking for help with it, but I don't think that has been fed back has it? Or it could be the child is whizzing through the original tasks and asking for more when she should be doing the original tasks in more depth. Again, needs to be fed back that that is what the problem is. (But wouldn't it reflect back in the achievement grades if she's doing shoddy work?)

Or it may be that the teacher is resenting having to provide extension work and would prefer the child to just sit there and twiddle her thumbs when she's finished. In which case actually it's the teacher at fault for not providing enough work automatically, or more open-ended tasks.

I include the latter as a possibility as happened to me in year 5. Only year I ever didn't get top marks on behaviour. What I remember of the year is never getting a smile from the teacher and having not a clue why not. Honestly was not disruptive, not even slightly. I was a mouse of a child. My parents evidently thought the same as they pretended it had been a good report and gave me a new guitar as a reward on the back of it (and my family never rewarded school reports - I should have spotted something fishy there!). They were teachers themselves, so disbelieving a teacher would have gone completely against the grain, I was really touched when I found out going through old school stuff as an adult.

Really think so Cat? I thought tiggy's post was spot on.
Do you think a teacher would make up a false report just to get back at a child knowing it may create more work(meeting, angry parents)?

It doesn't matter whether a behaviour is low level - if you want to complain about it (& more importantly change it) you have to be able to describe it.

If my kids teachers have had an issue with them at parents evening they have been more than keen to give chapter and verse so that we can work with them and child to improve their work or behaviour. The absence of that engagement from the teacher does make me wonder. There were a couple of other passing comments that made me wonder too.

But particularly I see no way for OP to tackle the issue with the DC without knowing more detail of what you want them to stop doing. Given it's so late in the year, and given OP has already tried and failed to find out, I'd just wait for parents evening with the new teacher. If there is a problem hopefully new teacher will be able to explain it better. Or maybe it'll be like my experience and there is no issue with any other teacher.