Is it normal for teachers to cheat in SATs?

[MerryMarigold]

I don't personally give a stuff about SATs, but ds1 came home and told me that teachers have told him some of the answers - in all of the tests. Is this normal behaviour? I am shocked, mostly because it is teaching ds1 that cheating in exams is ok. In this case, it is the school cheating.

This just seems really off - and will obviously boost the school's results. On another occasion the HT told my ds1 to 'get a move on' with his paper, which I thought wasn't good either. Ds1 does have slow processing, but I'd rather he was careful and did the questions correctly than storm through the paper. Another time he missed a question as he didn't know the methodology so he moved on (I taught him to do this rather than waste time on something he doesn't know) and he told to go back and do it.

Oh well, it's all over now.

I'm the head of a junior school and today I reported a member of staff who had prompted a child to rethink a couple of answers.

I'm not being funny but are seriously considering keeping quiet about this? Jeez!

My DD has also sat her SATS this week and if shed come to me about this is have hit the ducking roof.

The hard work and stress when they are just going to cheat? Sorry but that is unacceptable.

Shame on you if you don't report it...

They should have thought about the repercussions before hand!

My DCs were assessed as being at a much loelwer level than their Y6 SATS, at the end of first term of secondary school. I don't think there was cheating, I think the secondary was taking a pessimistic view so they could show more 'improvement' in the first year. In some cases bthe difference was huge, then, by the end of first yr, they had made massive leaps, and recovered to just last the SAT assessed level.

This had little actual effect, but makes me feel that what grades a child gets in SATs, or if their grades are voided, it seems to make little difference when they start at secondary school? In my experience, they will get moved to the right level for them actual ability within a term if the school is doing its job.

My DS mentioned something about being helped today. I wasn't really listening. I will quiz him about it tomorrow. He did say the teacher helped a few other children too.

I would say there's very little point reporting to head and not the proper authorities. You're still accusing the school of cheating, so all your concerns about your younger children are the same. And they will create a scapegoat and it will be hushed up. If you report to the proper people it is anonymous and they will decide how to deal with it and who to hold accountable.

Why would you tell your son you're doing it? Especially if it will make him upset? This is a problem for adults to deal with, not 10 year olds. Just reassure him he did the right thing in telling you, and explain why he mustn't cheat in exams in the future (not blaming him here, but in his future it'll be more student driven if it happens, the old notes under the table etc).

Yes, it could mean the results are void for the whole year, but it will be better for those children in the long run, and for your younger children too. The school will have to change what it's doing, and your younger children will not be caught up in cheating and fake results.

Teachers can be kind, caring, helpful etc and still be cheating. And year 6 teachers wave them off and don't have to deal with the next five years of the fallout. Your child might not be affected by an extra mark or two, but for some children it's going to make a massive difference, and they are going to be demoralised and struggling for a long time. No one would want teachers to lose their jobs, but what they are doing is not for the good of the children, it's for the good of the school. This is not them being over invested in your child, although it's easy to justify it as that, it is for them to meet their own results target. Performance related pay is a disaster for this sort of thing whole other thread. And before it looks like I'm bashing primary teachers, there's a reason controlled assessment is being got rid of in secondary, and it's the same one, too easy and too much temptation to "help the kids" gap fills for MFL writing for example. It's a real bitch when you're in a school that doesn't do it and you know your results look worse.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm hugely sceptical that teachers cheat for the sake of the kids and not for the sake of their own results. And they deserve to be reported. The consequences are clear to all teachers.

This is scary. The trouble is that the more teachers who cheat, the worse the unassisted results look. And the more pressure on teachers.

unapaloma the government sets the children's gcse targets according to their SATs results. All of them. So history, modern languages, geography, drama etc all set according to English result, and maths dictates maths and science. Those targets cannot be altered by the secondary schools. In our school, the government targets are the baseline and we are meant to exceed them (if it's not already an A*). Those are the grades secondary schools are then assessed against to see whether students are making good progress there.

So even if they wanted to fake it to show progress in year 7, that'd be about the only year they could do it for. If you think they're below their year 6 level you had better get them up there by the end of year 7 otherwise that child is immediately underachieving. And if you can't catch them up, they will be underachieving (with the oh so encouraging red shading over their results in every report) for the rest of their time at school.

Secondary schools can't ignore the results and just set whatever targets they want.

I am suspicious that our school may tamper with levels in Year 5 and show them to be struggling, when they were flourishing just a couple of months before and then by Year 6 they are above target again.

I can not take OFSTED reports seriously I just think some schools are good at manipulating pupil's progress.

unapaloma, that may be to make it look good to parents. It may be that the summer break and move to secondary school does knock some DC backwards in the required knowledge / understanding for school. When it comes to judging school performance by ofsted / slt it is based on progress since the results at the end of primary school. We simply cannot alter the expected attainment of a year group students (as a whole - we can alter individual targets but many schools are reluctant to do that). But, apparently, we can just ignore those who come to us without any prior data.

I worked part time at my DDS school, and know cheating did not happen there. However my daughter is now year 9 and has madly high GCSE targets. When I query it I'm told it " motivates " the pupils.

Irenethequaint but i KNOW my daughters school is excellent at teaching. She has Sen due to dyslexia and yet she's able to do maths and English at a much higher level then I ever could, despite my level 5 and 6 sats results.
The fact is, is that this year the standards have gone through the roof.
The English terminology wasn't even taught when I was in secondary school in top sets.

There is a lot of pressure on teachers nowadays. Education is full of information that our children will most likely never have to use beyond school.

I think if there was ever a good reason to boycott the SATS this thread would be it. Utterly pointless.

Are you certain it wasn't just the answers to the practice questions? And it used to be in the maths you could read a question to a child (without the symbols) if they asked; so it may be that some of what they are doing is allowed, though it wouldn't be at GCSE. Also, general reminders to read carefully, check you answers, time reminders (e.g. 5 minutes left) all used to be allowed too (I haven't seen latest guidance, sorry!)

The summer break does have an impact yes.

But it does not make a child forget how to multiply, add negatives, subtract columns, or divide, so much so that they are being retaught it again still in May.

I've heard of this type of thing on many occasions over the years. Answers being written on the board, children being advised to check a particular question or prompted with the answer.

One of our local primary schools had its whole year results in English and Maths annulled because a marker noticed that several papers had answers altered in similar hand writing.

My impulse is to be outraged about the message being sent that it's okay to cheat and to report it to the STA.

Pragmatically, I think this is the consequence of a deeply flawed education system and in all honesty given the current morale and pressures in teaching, I probably wouldn't report it now.

Tanaqui the things you described happened at my sons school so,either it's still allowed or they're cheating too (don't think they are but who knows)

Irene, it's what they've learned that's important ?

They've learned bog all whole year except how to pass a SAT. Void that and you have voided a year of work.

Not all schools are the same. We have been learning all year with a bit of light revision since Easter. Lots of non-academic stuff going on too.
No cheating from us, but we do read out questions according to the guidelines. For some children who can't read that well it can make a bit of a difference in Maths.
No practice questions since the curriculum changed too.

This is the test administration guidance, which gives very specific information about how pupils cannot be helped.

Oops This

I asked ds about practice questions today as I'd never heard of them and he said there weren't any.

The Numberfaker, they did have the Y6 residential which was a lovely week off, but it's been INTENSE revision since January, basically just constant past papers inc. 3 per week for homework. It's totally geared to SATs. I hate it and am very disappointed in the school. You don't know these things about a school in advance. We moved here a couple of years ago and it's our nearest school.

Coincidentally, it is also an OFSTED outstanding

Thanks can'tkeepawayforever. I read the guidelines and it is very clear that you cannot even indicate that something is wrong or right. I will print that off to help me. I'm really nervous and still undecided about what I will do. I will do something, but it needs very careful consideration.

My friend is a teacher and thinks I shouldn't even go to governors and should go to head teacher. I think she is thinking of the trouble it would cause for those involved - basically sacking. I don't want to be responsible for that. Yes, you should be sacked if you hit a child, or teach very badly, but for giving out a few answers? I have asked my sis too, who is a teacher and has been supporting Y6 for past few years. Not heard back from her.

In the grand scheme of life, is it such a big deal. To be honest, I think inflated SAT scores are more likely to come from 2 terms of intensive teaching to SATs and revision, rather than help on a couple of answers. Doesn't make it right, but it is about a flawed system not the cheating. The cheating is wrong because it is morally wrong, not because it will give secondary schools a harder time.

What I mean is, is it worth ruining someone's whole career for? Maybe it wouldn't come to that, I don't know, but I don't want to risk it.

I would hope that making them aware that I am aware of the guidelines and that I could report would stop them ever doing it again.

I'm the head of a junior school and today I reported a member of staff who had prompted a child to rethink a couple of answers.

Have you been trying to get rid of them for some time?

Can't see you doing that if you thought they were genuinely a great teacher. You'd have had a word, right.