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Original poster

Is it normal for teachers to cheat in SATs?

245 replies

MerryMarigold · 11/05/2017 16:47

I don't personally give a stuff about SATs, but ds1 came home and told me that teachers have told him some of the answers - in all of the tests. Is this normal behaviour? I am shocked, mostly because it is teaching ds1 that cheating in exams is ok. In this case, it is the school cheating.

This just seems really off - and will obviously boost the school's results. On another occasion the HT told my ds1 to 'get a move on' with his paper, which I thought wasn't good either. Ds1 does have slow processing, but I'd rather he was careful and did the questions correctly than storm through the paper. Another time he missed a question as he didn't know the methodology so he moved on (I taught him to do this rather than waste time on something he doesn't know) and he told to go back and do it.

Oh well, it's all over now.

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Feenie · 11/05/2017 20:23

Blatant, jumbl - and yes please.

Thegiantofillinois · 11/05/2017 20:24

Very interested to see how many secondary schools have this issue. Shame mumsnet can't be alluded to during one of our many meetings explaining why little Ben may have got an incredibly high score, but it's really not our fault that he can't write at the level that score now dictates.

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:26

Feenie, yes of course I know they're externally marked. Where did I say that I didn't. The point was that the secondary school couldn't believe the results were accurate because they didn't relate to the children's abilities. There were children going up as the old level 4 who were barely a level 3.

anon1987 · 11/05/2017 20:27

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:32

Feenie, it was reported. We were all oblivious to it for the first few years and it wasn't until a senior member of staff walked in on the head and Y6 teacher adding full stops that it started coming out in dribs and drabs.

Feenie · 11/05/2017 20:33

Because they 'reeatedpy asked how they were marked' Confused

Really odd. Presumably, the repeated answer would have been 'some woman in Rotherham', why? Confused

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:33

The truth started coming out in dribs and drabs. Gosh I'm trying to eat and type at the same time and I'm not making sense.

Feenie · 11/05/2017 20:34

I asked why you didn't report it.

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:36

Feenie, because I was on maternity leave when it all came out. The deputy reported it as she had the full facts from observing the headteacher and from speaking to TAs.

mrz · 11/05/2017 20:37

But you said " as to how the SATs papers are marked because the levels were so over inflated" rainbow. Which implies that the problem is in the marking

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:41

It's not odd. The secondary school asked each cluster school. Plus at coordinated PE meetings run by the secondary school they grilled our PE teacher. I was grilled at a science training course run by the secondary school. And the IT coordinator was asked when she took children in for an internet safely day. If three members of staff at our school were asked then I'm sure they would do the same with the other schools. I think that's classed as repeatedly?

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 11/05/2017 20:41

Please report this to the Standards and Testing Agency at [email protected], even anonymously if you feel you don't want to become involved. If the school is an academy, also consider contacting the Education Funding Agency at [email protected]

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:45

mrz, the secondary school thought that we were somehow involved in the marking to make our school look better and to deter OFSTED from knocking at our door. The marking isn't the issue when blatant cheating is going on and children are told when they have got something wrong and when to change a correct answer.

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:46

When to NOT change a correct answer.

C0untDucku1a · 11/05/2017 20:47

I always assumed this was quite common as a secondary school teacher. Far too frequently children arrive at level 4 and 5 in year 7 and our baseline assessments, and their general classwork, is more like a 3.

MollyHuaCha · 11/05/2017 20:48

When I was doing O levels many moons ago, one teacher came to each individual table during the exam and silently (but not secretively) handed us each a note with a few words of key guidance for answering the questions. Half way through the exam, she collected them back...

This is 100% true! Grin

ChocolateWombat · 11/05/2017 20:50

I don't take it to mean the marking was over inflated or to be a comment on that.
I think she means that secondary teachers questioned whether kids were at the level their test results suggested. Because teachers had cheated, the answers were of a higher level than the children could have achieved. However they had been accurately marked. Surely it's simply that the secondary teacher quickly recognises that a child is in reality a lower level than they have on their record?

As to why people don't tell.....well parents find this very difficult. On one hand although they dislike it and think it's wrong, they also hope it will get their kids a few extra marks. Additionally, they worry that grassing will implicate the children or them.....it is all very well saying it anonymous, but people simply do t believe it will be. And of course teachers worry they will be discovered as the whistle blowers too.

So I'm not condoning keeping quiet. Clearly people do need to speak up....but I also understand why they don't.

OP, despite starting a thread being upset about cheating, clearly isn't willing to speak out. She worries about younger children in school and is willing to keep quiet, justifying doing so as being because the teachers have been kind to her kids. Many people in a similar situation will find ways to justify not whistle blowing to themselves or others. It's a real problem that this is going on and probably on a large scale and that it is difficult and counter cultural to tell, especially when children are involved.

Just shows what a lot of shite the whole thing is......kids crammed for 6 weeks in some schools, cheating in the exams, teachers under pressure either from Heads or just fear of poor results, secondary teachers facing targets they cannot meet.....yes, accountability is good, but this is a total shit show as far as I'm concerned.

Chocolou · 11/05/2017 20:50

My sons school walks around classroom and points to a question and says you might want to look at that question again🤔 he says funnily enough the Ines he did have to look at he re did and had got wrong.

It's very commonplace. I've various friends whose children all go to different schools and everyone of them says the above!!

MaybeDoctor · 11/05/2017 20:51

I am afraid that this does accord with what I have heard, albeit second hand, when I was teaching. I was teaching the other end of the age range at the time.

Many pupils having readers when they would not normally have that level of support.

An EAL teacher mentioning to me that she was very uncomfortable with the level of 'support' she was being asked to give.

A TA complaining that it was very stressful supporting in the SATS, what with needing to read the pupil's answers and nod approvingly if they were right or frown/grimace if they were wrong...

The whole system is false.

HammerToFall · 11/05/2017 20:53

Merry, I'm going to report it. I have asked DS about it again and he has had a TA sat with hi. In every test, turning pages when he is running out of time, pointing to answers and telling him to double check. Coaxing him all the way. DS is below average and struggles and this has really undermined his confidence and made him feel,like he is different to others in class. It sounds like all the ones that needed 'help' had a teacher sat with them.

Jumbl · 11/05/2017 20:53

So pointing out incorrect answers is definitely classed as cheating?

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:54

Jumbl, yes it is.

TheNumberfaker · 11/05/2017 20:55

Wow! We had a big meeting about what we could and couldn't say to the children during the tests. How we could read questions in all but the reading comp, but not give any intonation or imply punctuation etc.
So frustrating to sit with some (who need a reader) and not be able to ask if they want to move on to the next question as that could imply the current answer is correct!

RainbowChasing · 11/05/2017 20:55

ChocolateWombat, yes that's what I'm saying. Marking was accurate. The work submitted was not accurate as it had been tampered with.

elevenclips · 11/05/2017 20:57

If I were you, I would have a conversation with your ds explaining why it's wrong. You could give reasons why they might have done it but emphasise that it's wrong regardless and he should never involve himself in dodgy stuff like this. Once you square this away with your ds I would leave it. It won't impact your ds's life as long as you make sure he knows right from wrong.

Whilst reporting it is the "right" thing to do you could then find yourself in a horrible position. Your life could be made so miserable that your younger dc might be driven out of the school. I wouldn't risk my dcs education.

My friend reported something similar in a school (it was definitely worse than what you've described) and it got swept under the carpet. The teacher in question was told to find a new job and then resign. The head said that the matter wouldn't be taken further if the teacher did this, so she did and is now teaching in another school.