Is it normal for teachers to cheat in SATs?

[MerryMarigold]

I don't personally give a stuff about SATs, but ds1 came home and told me that teachers have told him some of the answers - in all of the tests. Is this normal behaviour? I am shocked, mostly because it is teaching ds1 that cheating in exams is ok. In this case, it is the school cheating.

This just seems really off - and will obviously boost the school's results. On another occasion the HT told my ds1 to 'get a move on' with his paper, which I thought wasn't good either. Ds1 does have slow processing, but I'd rather he was careful and did the questions correctly than storm through the paper. Another time he missed a question as he didn't know the methodology so he moved on (I taught him to do this rather than waste time on something he doesn't know) and he told to go back and do it.

Oh well, it's all over now.

The thing is, each school that cheats harms all the schools that don't, and future cohorts of children.

By inflating their results, they condemn future cohorts of Year 6s in other schools to spend a year in test and revision factories, as they strive to attain honestly what your school has attained dishonestly - a bit like honest athletes desperately training in order to try to emulate the performance of drug cheats.

In your position, I would report to the STA.

It isn't just morally wrong and giving secondary schools a hard time though-it's also giving those children with an inflated score a hard time for their entire secondary school life as they struggle to hit the targets they have been set from their SATS scores though.

My DC school do not cheat and do not go crazy on the practising papers:revision either. They teach the curriculum and then say we're ready. We had a spot unannounced check from county this week and were deemed exlempary in conducting the tests (they just arrived in the middle of one). I would be very concerned if this was my DCs school. What else are they doing...?

I'm so disappointed ted by this thread. On one hand lots of people are happy to say cheating is wrong.....but then they are also prepared to turn a blind eye to it and do nothing. This is being complicit in it, if you know it is happening.

Teachers might be very nice people. However, SATs are external exams which are used in a crucial way in the next stage of education. Guiding people towards the right answers, pointing out errors or even telling them correct answers all leads to incorrect results. It matters. It makes a farce of the system and the more people that do it, the more others will be under pressure to do it too, because otherwise their results look bad.

Reporting something for investigation is just that. It is then up to the authorities to decide what to do - whether to look into it or not, and any actions to be taken as a result of investigation. These outcomes are not the parents responsibility. Simply reporting suspected malpractice is the responsibility.

To say you won't take action because of fear or ruining careers, or because giving a few answers isn't very serious is deluding yourself and a way of justifying avoiding responsibility for doing the right thing. It becomes collusive behaviour in the wrong which is going on. I think OP and others simply don't want to rock the boat. They are thinking about their own comfort and ease, rather than what is right. How can things ever improve and corruption (because that is what is it) be challenged if people are not prepared to speak out?

Sorry,mbut this is all so disappointing. We say we are interested in the best educations for our children, but are willing to stand by and let corruption occur.

Chocolate id report if I felt the school was failing to teach my child, and giving them help during sats because they haven't provided sufficient education before hand.
Sometimes children go blank during tests despite having all the knowledge in their head. It might be frustrating for teachers to watch bright children get flummoxed and not know an answer or give the wrong answer.
SATS are usually used for the league tables anyway, and are very likely to be scrapped at some point in the future.
I know that the secondary school my dd is going to, doesn't even look at them.
They go to classes with the rest of their form, and aren't put into sets until yr9.

anon,

As it has been said again and again, secondary schools may not take SATs into account when setting - but they are held to account for the progress that a child makes between their SATs results and their GCSEs (Progress8).

So if a child comes up with, say, 104 (Expected) in their SATs, when they were actually at a true level of 95 ((not at the Expected level)but the school cheated, the secondary is measured on whether they get the child to the GCSE results expected for a child who attained 104.

Secondary schools whilst also retesting after the long summer break, do use the SATS for target setting-that is government led not school led.

Am so disappointed with this thread am backing out. You do countless scores of children and schools a disservice by doing nothing.

If you don't report this you are accepting that it is OK and it really is NOT!

Do you think this is fair on all those year 6 children across the country who have worked their ass off these last months? It could seriously affect their results.

I am sure you'd have something to say if you found out another school had been cheating and it could affect your DC grades!

I'm not doing nothing. Nor am I ignoring it. I'm trying to be sensible and balanced. It would be easier for me in some ways to report anonymously. But I'm trying to think whether that is the best for the teachers involved and whether the fallout is worthy of the behaviour.

This is exactly why I didn't post in AIBU and why I'm also asking people in RL. Mnetters like to force people to do what THEY think is right, or rather the more vocal ones. Oddly enough it often has the exact opposite effect of getting people's backs up so they don't do anything.

Weekend, I don't care what my dc grades are. If I found out another school did it I'd care less. Not my problem.

Tbh I think it would be easier on you and your younger children at the school to report anonymously to the relevant authorities.

I actually think it's more morally wrong to use a child's score at age 11 or 10 to create GCSE targets.What farce is that?

Merry, I absolutely take your point about getting your back up, so i am a little wary of posting again.

However, you did say upthread that you were disappointed that your school made such a 'thing' of SATs, with lots of revision and past papers etc. That will be a direct result of the school looking at its results, and those of comparable schools, and saying 'we need to really cram our pupils with this stuff to be able to get similar / higher levels'. (I know I've seen schools go from a relaxed and reasonable approach to SATs to an all out test-focused machine)

If your school's grades are inflated through malpractice, then more and more schools, and more and more children, will be condemned to this cycle of drudgery. It may not affect your child personally any more - but for the sake of pupils and teachers everywhere, it does seem wrong to ignore it, or only raise it with the very people who encouraged / mandated it in the first place. the PP who reported his / her own staff member is very rare - sweeping under the carpet is more common, and active encouragement / connivance probably more common still, because ultimately the head takes both praise and blame for a schools' results.

"Guiding people towards the right answers, pointing out errors or even telling them correct answers all leads to incorrect results. It matters. It makes a farce of the system "

I agree.

But to be honest, perhaps making a farce of the system is exactly what needs to be done.

Because, as another PP pointed out, good people standing by and doing nothing is what makes a 'bad' get 'worse'. So if you personally think SATS are 'bad', (for whatever reason - mine would be that all too often they result in a wasted year for the children, in which they are narrowly taught to the test rather than broadly to think and explore and learn, and in way too much unhealthy pressure piled upon children at too young an age) - then you shouldn't 'stand by and do nothing'. Just because the government says so.

The problem IMO lies in the SATS themselves, the cheating is just a side effect.

(I do not think that the majority of cheaters do so for subversive reasons. I do however believe that the cheating itself may have a subversive effect. Exactly because it makes a farce of the system, or rather, exposes the farcicalness that lies within the system already.)

Ms Jolly it would. But it would also be harder on my older ds and all his friends if the results were voided. And also harder on the teachers who have genuinely done their best (other than this) this year for our children. It will also not do my younger kids any favours if there is chaos, more pressure on teachers, unhappiness and stress in the school.

Merry, details of Progress8 here

In some ways, it is a significant improvement on using absolute results to rank schools or hold them to account - schools who had good results because of their intake were praised, whereas schools who had low-performing intakes, made astonishing progress with them but got lower absolute results were penalised.

However, as with all 'progress' measures, at an individual child level they can be bonkers - what about a child who suffers a bereavement early in secondary school, or is ill, for example, or conversely has just arrived in the country with little English for Y6 but then makes huge progress in secondary as their true ability comes to light?

Merry, I do understand the 'personal' reasons for not reporting - it has ever been thus, in all scenarios (both trivial and vast) where wrong could be reported / publicised but wasn't. I think that's why I am suggesting the 'official,, anonymous' route, as both the easiest and most effective.

I agree that there is an innate problem in the system and me reporting isn't going to change that. This thread is more likely to change it or more publicity and reporting on it from the media.

I am more tempted to go to the governors as they can help the school change, and change the attitude towards SATs a my younger children come up, as opposed to penalizing the school and creating chaos.

I'm a teacher and this is not on! Report it, definitely. If not, these children will go on to secondary with inflated levels and have higher expectations for GCSE which they'll struggle to achieve. It's not fair on the children at all.

From the published Governing Body minutes, do they have a significant track record of really challenging the Head, and are they highly visible in school?

Some GBs are excellent, and have the expertise and focus to really challenge the HT and school. They will be making regular visits to the school to investigate different aspects of the school's development plan and how the school is operating, as well as asking challenging questions at organised meetings.

Others can be highly influenced by the Head (who is the main conduit of information about how the school is doing to the governors, so it can take quite some effort for a GB to really dig beyond the information that they are given).

Do you have any knowledge of how Governors have dealt with previous issues / complaints / difficulties raised by parents?

'Not my problem' in my mind says it all for why people don't report.
They think the cheating in some way has helped their child and simply don't care about the wider effects on education or can't see that if everyone takes this view, that their own child WILL be affected down the line because someone else also didn't report what would hurt them.

This thread raises questions about SATs preparation and corruption in schools, but also about how individuals in society react to events when they know there is wrong. Both small and large wrongs occur which we know about. We can be inward looking and feel a bit annoyed about it but not prepared to do anything to help stop it,Mahican does make us complicit in the wrong, or we can act.

As clearly has been said here, there are anonymous ways to report. It will not result in your children's results being voided or chaos. Reporting just passes the issue to the authorities to consider and act upon. Because the people doing wrong have done other things which are good does not mean they can then do the wrong and should be allowed to get away with it, sosomehow have credit in the 'good' bank - it's faulty logic to think this.

If someone committed a crime which caused harm to others, we wouldn't think that because they had bought us flowers we wouldn't report it. We would consider the effects on the person who suffered and those in the future who might suffer if it was done again. If we stayed silent knowing a criminal was on the loose and they struck again, we would be complicit because we hadn't taken action to stop them. Sins of omission etc.

OP, I understand that these kind of comments are hard to hear. You might say they turn you against taking action and feel pushed and pressurised. I understand that. I can see that you have used many many different ways to justify not making an official complaint and that you worry about the effects on their careers and are trying to minimise what has happened by saying things like SATs being used to set targets is more wrong than the cheating. At the end of the day, however annoying it is to have it pointed out that doing nothing or not properly reporting creates further problems for many children in the future, you will need to decide if to act or not...if to decide that because most of the impact will be on other children not your own, it isn't your concern, responsibility or issue. Just look over again all the many many posters who advise you to report. They are all people who want education to be good and fair for children now and in future, so it's a question of helping to achieve that or choosing the path of least resistance for an easy life really.

what a dilemma. i honestly don't know what i'd do especially with 2 younger dcs coming through the school. A quiet word with the head probably "this went on, you should know"? Hopefully that is enough for them to know they can't get away with it.

and yes, my DD has learned how to get thoroughly bored and how to mark SATS papers. She hates marking them more than she hates doing them. She has learned nothing new since at least January.

btw most secondaries re-test or do MIDYIS baseline testing in yr7 for GCSE predictions,

DD's secondary don't even get sent her SATS results

"btw most secondaries re-test or do MIDYIS baseline testing in yr7 for GCSE predictions,"

Whatever the SCHOOL chooses to do in terms of target setting / predictions, the GOVERNMENT holds them to account for what they actually achieve based on the SATs results - see the document I linked to earlier.

So as DS, for example, got a 5 in his Y6 English - because he was a good reader and decent writer based on what is required at primary - he needs to get high grades to figure as a positive in his school's GCSE statistics, regardless of the fact that his actual performance in 'let's analyse what the author was thinking and write ridiculously fast' type English Literature essays is lower. It doesn't matter what his re-testing or MIDYIS says, or his day to day performance or his in-school tests each year at secondary - he will be a negative in terms of English progress unless he gets the high GCSEs which would represent linear progress from his Y6 results.

Turning a blind eye makes one complicit - consider many things in history that might have been stopped sooner had someone blown the whistle. Hyperbole, perhaps, but who is to say that this isn't endemic and without sufficient evidence will continue and eventually blow up?