giving home school books (text books etc...)

[rrbrigi]

Hi,
I would like to start a discussion to find out opinions for parents and teachers about giving home school books (I mean the books which the children work in each lesson).

As a parent I think it would help me a lot if I could see what my child learnt in the school each day. Specially from math, English and science.

My child is ready to learn with me at home around 60 mins a day. But the problem is I do not know what to practice.

I think it is useless to practice the fractions at home (because I think he needs practice on that bit) when they learn the long division in the classroom. I think if I could practice the same thing with him at home as he does in the school, it could help him to improve his math way better than just random practices every day. But just practicing something on mymaths won’t deepen his knowledge, in fact it could make him confused, because they did not learn that in the school yet, or the work is too easy or hard. They got homework once a week from math (1 A4 paper maximum), but it does not reflect the whole week maths lessons. We do random practices know, but I do not think it benefited him at all, just took the time from him to do something else.

It also would help me to see what he does in school for English. For example, if he needs to write a story at home seeing his English book I would know the quality of writing he would be capable of and I also would see his teacher comments, so I would know what should he include in his story. Or I could see which part of the grammar they are learning in the school, so we can practice that at home. I think there is no point of practicing the power verbs at home when they are learning about adverbs in the school.

From Science is the same. If I would know what they do each lesson, we could see videos from the same thing, or reading pages on the internet about the same thing, it would help him to catch his interest in Science and deepen his knowledge.

It would be better for the teachers as well, because I do not think I am the only one who would help her kids to learn. Parents could spend the daily learning time with their kids more effectively and as a result kids would have better understanding about the things they learn.

I just feel that without his school books I do not even get the possibility to support his learning on the way he deserves. If I could see what he learnt in the school each day I strongly think as the time goes I could even improve his GCSE mark as he would get without this support.

So my question is:
Teacher why do not give the school books home?
Parents what do you think, would you like to see your children school books every day to help them in their learning journey?

Thanks for reading it.

rrbrigi, could you explain when you want your child's workbooks to be marked? I still can't see how that works?

Here is England, it seems to me, the struggling children in general get too little practice. So they move on to the next unit before having 'mastered' the current one. But parents aren't told this until parents' evening or end-of-year report.

Yes! Honestly, the twice termly curriculum outline that is sent home tells me bugger all about what my child is doing at school. I really do not know, and, no, the teacher simply does not have time to sit down every few weeks to let me know what DS is or isn't up to. Too little, too late imo.

I also grew up in a country where sending home workbooks and textbooks from a very young age was standard practice...as was standardised test taking, but that's another issue. We obsess about making sure 4 year olds can get dress for p.e. yet they can't be trusted to bring home a book(?)

They really are quite capable, despite popular opinion.

Regarding appropriate material being available, I was shocked to find that as my DS was being taught handwriting (first print in reception, then cursive in Y1) he was never provided with that lined paper that has multiple lines showing how high the ascenders, descenders, regular small letters should be. Not at school, nor for practising at home (practising at home was required homework). Instead he got comments back to 'try to make his letters more even'.

So I provided him with what is IMO essential, appropriate material. At least for at home. Sadly he is not a keen writer at home, so 95% of his writing happens at school, so in Y2 he is still struggling to make his letters even. The school demands he learn to do something but does not provide him with the material he needs for it.

I was thinking about marking, which does not mean a lot for me or for my son (I am sorry). But I understand it needs to be done. Telling them verbally when children do the task is a different thing, that is very useful.

Perhaps if we could take the books home every other day or just for the weekend? Still would be better than nothing. Or we could take different books home in different days (e.g.: Monday: math book, Tuesday: English book, Wednesday: Science, than math and English again or something like that).

Bigweald, that sounds really odd! We use the paper you describe, then transition to 'normal' paper, then perhaps continue to use handwriting paper for specific children on specific occasions to work on specific features.

BigWeald, don't get me started on learning to write on that kind of lined paper... :D

In any case, what you say is wrong, your efforts are NOT wasted. Personally I have pretty much given up on knowing what they do at school, but that doesn't matter... we just do our own things at home and it works out pretty well. I enjoy doing it and they enjoy doing it. I have a vague understanding of what they are supposed to be doing and that is enough (so we don't get carried away with work that is too advanced - not for them, but for the curriculum).
What does bug me, though, is that here they don't do times tables until... Goodness only knows when. Not knowing them makes it difficult to do even the most basic problems. I did do them at home, but we haven't been practicing them regularly, so my DD are not fluent and that is a hurdle to be overcome ASAP (and not in p5, 6 or 7...). I think that might be something we can tackle over the summer as, yes it is boring, but it doesn't require any special equipment.

Funny anecdote: on new year's day we were at some friends' house and one of the guests was a young mother who grew up in the area and went to "my" secondary school. She was telling me how my primary school was seen as very academic, in those days at least, as you would know the kids who came from it because they knew... the times tables!! :D :D

Vagn, I agree, in a historic sense - in that one of the positive features of the 2014 National Curriculum, specifically in maths, is that it recognised this problem and focuses very much on mastery.

For schools which do this properly, it does mean an improvement in the situation that you describe (though on the flip side, parents of children who are gifted at Maths have, in some cases rightly, complained that a rigid application of this has restricted their children's progress).

We have found it so effective in Maths that we are now very much applying the same thinking to English (rehearsal of the basics until secured, rather than superficially skimming over a number of things), again to good effect so far.

Arkadia, all children should know all times tables by the end of Y4, it's in the National Curriculum. Many good schools aim for earlier - as iI say, Maths facts are one part of our weekly homework in all years, along with daily reading, because in our experience they are the most valuable forms of homework.

I appreciate Sscotland is different.

We also send routine calculation practice, for all 4 operations, using our calculation policy fior each year group which is aligned to the National curriculum. So every child practises every operation (+,-,x divide) every week, using the methods that they have been taught so far. Any parent who thinks they may not know the methods is invited into school every year for a training / communication meeting, at which the process for learning all Maths facts is also outlined. We test Maths facts weekly.

I'm in Scotland and they drum times tables into them all the time. Times tables were started p1/2 and the homework diary always says to practise them.

Cant, Y4 is way too late, or at least it could be done way soon. You can easily start in Y1 and finish in Y2. Not knowing one's tables is SUCH a hindrance.
At my school my DD1 (P3) is not getting past 2x, 5x and 10x (and they were introduced only recently and are talked about only now and again), but that is useless knowledge because you are missing all the others. Instead they keep harping on about sum facts (which I am still to be convinced is it actually useful).
In my view (and others...) you introduce ALL the times tables reasonably quickly and ASAP, and keep practicing them, but at the same time you have a multiplication table or such like you can use for reference, so you can actually start doing more advanced problems, something that at this moment in time they cannot do.

Rrbrigi- the problem is that making it parents' choice to support or not inherently disadvantages thousands of children. Those whose parents don't care or do not have the time or ability to support their children will fall further and further behind. Putting the onus of education on schools should remove that disadvantage. Of course, in reality, that is not the case. Children (such as mine) are privileged from conception, due to their parents' position to support, extend, and accommodate their learning, and also their parents' opinion of learning and the value they place on it.

It is a mind set, you're right arkadia, that in England education is entirely down the the school. This hasn't always been the case, but since the seventies or so, I think it has become the position.

It seems to be a failed experiment, as social mobility has not improved, and the expectation that teachers will do all the work is about to cause an irrevocable rift in the system.

Some really good posts on this thread, and very interesting experiences. Thank you all contributors.

"You can easily start in Y1 and finish in Y2. Not knowing one's tables is SUCH a hindrance.!"

I agree - and IME most schools do teach times tables ealier.

On sum facts - well, it depends. You need sum facts to do addition and subtraction calculations, in the same way as you need times tables for multiplication and division. Teaching long multiplication to children who can do all the multiplication steps but then do the final addition steps using their fingers has opened up the need for fluency in these facts too!

I know that mrz is an infant teacher who ensures all her pupils know all times tables by the end of Y2 at the latest, often earlier.

dement, isn't what you mean that they learn "doubles" in p1, then count in 10s and in 5s at some stage? For now (P3) at my school they don't even know that a 3 times table exists.
That's all well and good, but it could be done MUCH more quickly and get it over and done with.

cant, to me the four operations are useful tools, but that are a means to an end, the end being able to do solve problems. In themselves they are quite boring and once more or less mastered (and really, it is not difficult) you quickly move on to applying them to "real life" problems. So everything comes alive and you can apply the same techniques in 100 different ways. Instead the way they do it here is ... maths facts, à la big maths, and very little more. I am not aware that my DD1 does anything else apart from number trios and such like. Nothing wrong with number trios and number facts, but after doing pretty much only that for three years, I would want to slash my wrists :D (but that could be my school or the CfE, i don't know)

Cant, indeed. But with sums you can get by using different techniques, while for multiplications or division without the times tables you just can't do anything.
I am probably biased because, like many others, I don't think I was ever thought maths facts, but still manage OK :)

Arkadia,

We do maths facts + 4 operations as homework so that all the problem solving / reasoning/fractions work can be done in school. What we had been finding was that we would teach an arithmetic method (e.g. long multiplication), then come back later to a real life problem that needed it (e.g. finding surface areas of 3D shapes) and find that we had to remind children of the method.

Instead, all children now have a tiny bit of practice of each calculation each week, as well as maths facts, and so they have them at their fingertips. We can then dive directly into the 'real life' problems etc in lessons.

We have found that more effective in ensuring progress for all children than the other way round (teach arithmetic in school and send problem solving questions home).

Ds knew his tables by p3 but then he was always ahead in maths. You need to support by doing them at home too, school doesn't have time to drum them in all the time. 2, 5 and 10 are the easiest ones so that's why they do them first.

PhilODox Since as a parent I had my children which I chosen to have children, everything is my choice regarding there education, well being, growing up etc... Every parents has a choice if they support there children or not. Getting the time for supporting my child is my choice, getting the knowledge is my choice again. So at the moment my child has a disadvantage , the gap is not widening between him and those children whose parent chosen not to support them (because they think school should do all the teaching and practice), but he cold do a lot better if I could get a choice (getting the book) to support him efficiently.

I meant their and not there. Sorry.

I'm just wondering why you can't let your child's teachers teach?

Do you go to the Doctor and then come home and do more research to check what he prescribed was accurate?

Why can't books go home? 1. They wouldn't return (75% would get lost, despite what you say). 2. This would cause major issues for teachers for marking and assessment 3. You can see them at any time so there is no need. 4. Long term planning should be available on the school's website, so if you need to know what they're doing, it will be on there.

I'm all for parents helping their children by reinforcing learning at home. However. There are other, better, ways of doing this. Read. Take your child to museums. Teach your child general knowledge. Ask your child what they find specifically hard (e/g fractions) and work just on that one skill (If you really feel you must)

However, I'm a teacher and in my opinion, no primary school aged child needs homework. They need rest and play at home. They need to work on their social skills. They need to work on building friendships and relationships. They need a sit down meal with their family and an early bedtime.

All of this over-involvement is killing the love of learning. It's bad enough in the classroom these days (thanks govt) without parents now allowing their children any downtime at all. Teach them their timetables and teach them how to tell the time. Now, that would be helpful!

rrbrigi,

You imply that not supporting a child is a choice... which it can be, but isn't always.

What about if (all these are from my own direct experience)

• the parent is illiterate, from an ethnic / cultural group where school attendance was not the norm even for current young parents
• the parent is working at several jobs, including evenings and nights, to keep a roof over the family's head
• the parent is in hospital long-term, and the child stays with a different friend / relative every night
• the parent has a long term illness or disability, and the child is their carer, and may also care for sblings
• a sibling is are disabled or has very high needs
• the parent does not speak English
• the parent is substance addicted
• the parent is in prison
• the child is in care

(I use parent in the singular in this case because of course the situation is compounded for single parents, where no other parent can take on the responsibility of working with the child)

Star, I absolutely agree - reading, times tables, telling the time, developing social skills, talking to them about a wide variety of topics, serving and eating good meals together and ensuring an early bedtime and plenty of exercise. Enrichment in terms of new experiences, visits etc a bonus!

Oh, and swimming lessons, if you can find the money anywhere. The amount of swimming that schools can offer children is just not enough to teach a non-swimmer to swim, and IME that is a non-negotiable life skill.

I leave the teaching to the teachers on the school, and I think they do a great job. But the time they have in the school is not enough for practice, because of other thing around the school (assemblies, summer play, Christmas play, open afternoons, etc...).

StarUtopia Honestly do you really think that you have enough time and you practice enough addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in your class? If you say yes, it means all of your students knows these by the time they leave primary.
If this is the case why secondary teachers needs to go through and explain and teach e.g.: subtraction again?