giving home school books (text books etc...)

[rrbrigi]

Hi,
I would like to start a discussion to find out opinions for parents and teachers about giving home school books (I mean the books which the children work in each lesson).

As a parent I think it would help me a lot if I could see what my child learnt in the school each day. Specially from math, English and science.

My child is ready to learn with me at home around 60 mins a day. But the problem is I do not know what to practice.

I think it is useless to practice the fractions at home (because I think he needs practice on that bit) when they learn the long division in the classroom. I think if I could practice the same thing with him at home as he does in the school, it could help him to improve his math way better than just random practices every day. But just practicing something on mymaths won’t deepen his knowledge, in fact it could make him confused, because they did not learn that in the school yet, or the work is too easy or hard. They got homework once a week from math (1 A4 paper maximum), but it does not reflect the whole week maths lessons. We do random practices know, but I do not think it benefited him at all, just took the time from him to do something else.

It also would help me to see what he does in school for English. For example, if he needs to write a story at home seeing his English book I would know the quality of writing he would be capable of and I also would see his teacher comments, so I would know what should he include in his story. Or I could see which part of the grammar they are learning in the school, so we can practice that at home. I think there is no point of practicing the power verbs at home when they are learning about adverbs in the school.

From Science is the same. If I would know what they do each lesson, we could see videos from the same thing, or reading pages on the internet about the same thing, it would help him to catch his interest in Science and deepen his knowledge.

It would be better for the teachers as well, because I do not think I am the only one who would help her kids to learn. Parents could spend the daily learning time with their kids more effectively and as a result kids would have better understanding about the things they learn.

I just feel that without his school books I do not even get the possibility to support his learning on the way he deserves. If I could see what he learnt in the school each day I strongly think as the time goes I could even improve his GCSE mark as he would get without this support.

So my question is:
Teacher why do not give the school books home?
Parents what do you think, would you like to see your children school books every day to help them in their learning journey?

Thanks for reading it.

As a teacher I don't think it would be practical to send the books home everyday. A lot of days I have to take them home to mark them! Especially things like independent writing which takes longer to mark.
They could be sent home on a weekly basis but I can't see much advantage really.
I know that I always set homework which is the same as what we are currently doing in class so parents can see exactly what we are doing this way. Does your child's homework on reflect what they are covering that week in school?
You could always request that his books are sent home for you to see, I can't see that anyone would have a problem with that.

Books would never be returned!
I'm guessing English isn't your first language, but the English phrase is "practice makes perfect".
Just ask your child what they did today, and work on that.

Having been educated in a different country (and culture) this was one of the hardest things to get my head around when DS started school here.
In many places it is the obvious, most straight-forward thing to do (send the books home with the child) and it is hard to imagine how parents are supposed to (adequately and efficiently) support their children without that. It seems wholly impractical, or even impossible (to support children without that).
Whereas here it seems a crazy idea that only uber competitive hot-housers would even consider, and on top of that is wholly impractical to the point of basically impossible.
It's like people are talking a different language. I suspect it is an expression of a deep, underlying cultural difference in the concept of 'school' and how it fits into society. Where both say the same word, 'school' but the meanings associated with it are a lot more different than either 'side' realises.
I do wonder if this deep cultural difference may have something to do with different educational outcomes.

BigWeald, nicely put.

I too, came from country that uses text books, and found it difficult at first.
But like Big said, school environment is very different.

In my country, all the children are provided text books for each subject at the beginning of the year by the government. If you loose it, parents need to buy new one, which is very expensive.
Time tables are set properly so they only need to take books they need that day. They have daily homework to revise from start of primary.

I think English system is very relaxed compared to my country, but I decided to raise ds in this country, I need to take both good and bad into account and do the best I can do for him.

There are a lot things you can do to supplement school works.

An extra hour a day? Is that on top of the homework he undoubtedly gets? Even my secondary school child doesn't do that much work every evening. He's primary aged, he spends long enough at school, let him have a break.

But if you really do want him to do extra at home, you can easily buy maths/English /Science books, either on Amazon or places like WHSmiths, these will match up with where they currently are in the curriculum.

To those who live or have lived in countries where books routinely go home, what happens when a child doesn't come back with the book? What happens if it occurs frequently? What happens if the parents can't/won't pay for a replacement?

I think you are right - it is a question of culture.

But, honestly, the books would either never leave the bag, or get lost. I help at a school. I read with children who have not opened their school reading book since they last read with me. I spend huge amounts of time chasing, and often personally replacing, lost library books.

There simply isn't the culture of support at home in many cases. And I'm talking about a variety of families, including very educated, but busy working parents.

soap, in my country, text books don't go home. They go to school with children, and come back home with them.
Note books are provided by parents, not school.
Losing text books rarely happened, ime.
If the child keep forgetting to bring textbooks from home to school, you would get into trouble. If one off, they are asked to share with other children.
I don't know if the parents can't pay for lost text books, but those with low income would take extra care not to lose it in the first place, I think.

Are the countries you're all talking about, also ones that have a strong idea of rote learning of facts? So text books exist so as to provide those facts in the same way to everyone, rather than an education which is more defined in exploration and outcomes, so text books are less easily an option?

I have had parents bring in the text books they were used to using in their home countries to show me. to someone used to an English education system they were a revelation.They were more often than not produced by the National Education authorities in the country ,so the learning was very prescribed, and limited IMO. There appeared to be no way of offering extended or accelerated learning for brighter pupils, everyone "learned" at the same pace, those who didn't understand or catch on quick enough seemed to be faced with repeating the entire years work as their only option (presumably this is why the books are sent home, so that parents can reinforce the rote learning for the school to test).

I also have to say that the physical appearence of the text books shown was very poor by UK standards, poor quality paper , printing and picture reproduction.

I know the UK system has its faults, but downgrading it to what is essentially class based rote learning using inferior materials is not the way to fix things IMO.

BigWeald, you are right, it is a huge cultural and didactic impasse, and one that I doubt many UK educators would be happy to contemplate crossing. I once had an American teacher training student on teaching practice (read fun ten weeks in London!) , we learned a lot from each other about different teaching styles , expectations and methods, but we were both thankful to get back to what we knew !

Only rote learning I can remember was times tables, which England does as well?
Each school are free to chose from gov' approved supplier for their text books. So topic can vary from school to school.
Also I was one of able one at school, but I don't think I found it was unchallenging.
And papers were of first quality!

As a teacher I can appreciate how you would want to help but a lot of parents might not and also if books get damaged lost it's a major problem we have no evidence to show your child's level of moderated or ofsteded. Can you ask their teacher to maybe photocopy you a page for you to look at, this wouldn't be realistic weekly but I'm sure they might be able to do it for you half termly at least?

sirfred, that made me laugh - relatives from my country (some of them primary school teachers) have a tendency to 'look down' on the English education system due to its strong emphasis on 'rote learning of facts'. Especially in maths, but not only. Number bonds to 10, doubles, 'big maths' type memorising of 'number facts'? Chanting times tables before the child has properly grasped what multiplication means, before the child is able to quickly work out each 'multiplication fact'? Memorising dates/names of kings&queens/etc rather than gaining an understanding of what 'history' means? Creating lists of 'types of weather' rather than working on 'observing and recording' skills?
So no, in our case at least I wouldn't say it has anything to do with an idea of rote learning.

However maybe it has something to do with the whole class being taught the same thing, rather than multiple way differentiation within a class. So everyone is taught the same, and everyone is expected to 'get' it by the end of the teaching unit. A bit like the new-ish mastery approach here, which however in my limited experience hasn't been widely and thoroughly applied yet. Before the class moves to the next 'unit', they will need to have grasped the previous one or they will struggle to keep up. There is little of the 'spiralling' approach, so people can't think 'oh well the child hasn't grasped it yet, but maybe they will in a couple of months when we next visit this topic'. Instead there is system where every child will be teacher assessed and graded on each unit (in the lower years completely unbeknownst to them) and this grade will form part of their end-of-year grade, and if that is too low, the child will be made/allowed to repeat the whole year. Because if they haven't 'mastered' Y2 stuff they won't be able to keep up with Y3 stuff. So due to this 'mastery' approach, yes the children are all working on the same thing, and there is a minimal standard; and a clear programme of study that the teachers follow (there is no national curriculum but several regional curricula that the teachers are obligated to follow) so that may facilitate the 'text book' approach compared to a system where there is such a huge range of abilities within any year group.

I don't see how it would affect the question of taking home 'work books' though, if every child is working on something else/at a massively different level, that would make it especially useful to the parent to see what the child is actually 'producing' in terms of work. E.g. our school has weekly newsletters explaining what the children will be learning in the coming week, however for my child they are pretty useless as they (understandably) don't describe the differentiation that will be happening. E.g. 'this week we will be working on adding two 2-digit numbers by using a hundred square' - if my child was able to do this securely a year ago, I assume he will be working on gaining greater depth understanding (or perhaps be given 3-digit numbers in the name of differentiation), or perhaps be working on something completely different as the teacher hasn't really introduced a 'mastery' approach yet. So having his maths work book home would be really helpful for me to see what he is doing, and what he hasn't quite grasped yet.

And a child who is struggling with adding two 2-digit numbers may well need more practice than is possible during school time. Here in England, it seems to me, the struggling children in general get too little practice. So they move on to the next 'unit' before having 'mastered' the current one. But parents aren't told this until parents' evening or end-of-year report. When they find themselves going back to the 'basics' because they need to identify themselves where things started going wrong, e.g. some of the phonics threads on here, teacher tells parents the child is lagging behind with reading, parent finds themselves needing to identify - can my child blend? can he/she blend orally? does he/she have a secure knowledge of GPCs? Where did the problem begin?

soapboxqueen, this may have changed since I was a child, but if we forgot to bring our maths book in on a day when maths was timetabled (yes to PP explaining that parents - and kids! - will have a detailed timetable/lesson plan, so e.g. Monday 8-8:50 maths, 8:55-9:45 music, break, 10:00-10:50 literacy, 10:55-11:45 science, lunch break, ...)
... well, we were sent home to fetch it. Of course I appreciate this was in circumstances where all children walked (themselves) to school, and lived fairly locally, and it also kind of assumed that there'd be a SAHM waiting to let them in, hand them the missing book, and send them on their way again (though some kids would have keys, as both parents were at work).
We never had a problem of someone persistently 'forgetting' to bring their work books in. We had to buy our own work books and pay towards text books. But we didn't have to buy school uniform so I guess that equalises the financial strain out...

We took books at home as kids but educational practises change with peer reviewed evidenced based research. There is no advantage to children in primary school doing homework. You are much better off giving your child a love of reading - reading to them as well as them reading to you. Take them to art galleries and museums. They usually offer great activities for kids. After school activities are excellent. Music is incredibly expensive but some places offer free lessons. Check out your local library for their school holiday programs, story telling and craft sessions.

I see where you are coming from and i agree. I would ask the teacher for a print out on what topic work they are doing each term as on my son's school website there is a section that tells you what they are going to be learning in all the areas.
My son has a lot of one to one and he is intelligent in maths science and topic work. But because he need a lot of one to one he spends a lot of time out of lesson so when he gets back to class he misses half the lesson so doesn't catch up. I agreed with the school that I can so it with him at home and they send home a booklet now on the topic and what he is to do.
For the other areas his school is quite good at giving them the home work related to what they are doing in school.
The teachers don't nessecary have to mark the books as in sure you could do the marking yourself at home. Just maybe ask for a bit of feedback to be written in the books from time to time.

Oh gosh, this thread has made my day. :D

Talking about rote learning... What is big maths if not rote learning? (And don't give me that tosh about knowing 2+3 is the same than 20+30... I mean, is the Pope catholic?)
Not to mention all the jargon surrounding the curriculum for excellence, whatever that might be.
Not saying that overseas education is necessarily better in all aspects, nor that the opposite is true, but I have noticed, at my school at least, that it's not even conceived that there may be a different way of doing things (like children with textbooks). Take the blasted reward system. I really CAN'T stand it and I find it worng on SO many levels, but when I expressed my concerns years ago I was greeted with disbelief. "you have NO reward system back home???? And how do you manage???", said the HT, sounding like I came from Mars!

I share the observations made very eloquently by many here. For us is very difficult not to have a book to use at least as reference. We just get random pieces of papers, that now and again pop up in the school bag. The most interesting ones are actually the ones brought home by mistake, especially if they are used as scrap paper. We got interesting info in there ;) (and don't ask me to go to the school to ask them to give us info on what they do. Been there, done that, but got no t shirt. It is like we speak two completely different languages.)

One thing for certain, compared to what I am used to, at least at academic level, here at primary school they do... sod all.

Have you seen the post about deep cuts to school budgets?

The government tinkers with the curriculum so frequently that textbooks become obsolete quickly. There are many schools that don't even have enough decodable phonics reading books for all kids. At least reading books are an investment that will pay off until the book falls apart.

Companies have stepped in with online solutions because it's cost effective. I'm not a fan of MyMaths etc but there isn't a culture in the UK where schools can ask state school parents to pay for books etc. If there was then you'd end up with a huge divide that the government would not want to encourage in the state sector.

LOL about rote learning comment by big!

Yes, that's true, we don't do number bonds and doubles/halves etc. either. Also with repetition of inverse operations.
Times tables, yes we do rote learning, but it's done within a year.
Don't spend years learning and doing it again and again and again.....until all the children are ok with it like my ds' school.

One problem is that schools can't afford text books for every child in every subject, and a set of text books may well be used by more than one class. It's bad enough trying to find the books if they haven't been returned to the store, let alone if half have been left in the other class's homes.

I think the biggest difference is what they spend on school budget.
No uniforms, all the stationeries are supplied by parents, no TAs, all class teaching, etc, etc. Even the residential trips are paid monthly from start of school/year, etc. to avoid big spend at once for parents.
Everything seems to be a lot more organised and planned.

irvine I understand that for most or many, they would remember books and be able to replace them. But what happens when they don't? Whether it is text books or exercise books,it creates problems for staff. Schools have very little power to compell parents to do anything particularly before it impacts on the learning of the child.

No, it's a question of mindset, not budget.

In any case, at primary level you would get one book containing all you need, not a gazillion of leaflets. (However in some cases people might be asked to buy extra stuff, especially for maths, but that might come to a few euros or 10 or 20 on a bad day... Hardly enough to send you to bed hungry).

"No uniforms, all the stationeries are supplied by parents, no TAs, all class teaching, etc, etc. Even the residential trips are paid monthly from start of school/year, etc. to avoid big spend at once for parents. "

Interesting
Many UK schools don't have uniforms
We have whole class teaching (no TA)
Residential visits are paid for through a savings club that parents contribute to each week/month

Back in the dark ages when I was at school (in England) my parents had to pay for all stationary and text books. There were no such things as teaching assistants, teaching was whole class and we wore what we liked in primary then ...we looked to other countries and adopted practices which just shows that taking ideas from one country and dropping it into a totally different culture rarely works and comparing practice without considering culture gives a false picture.