I've made a nob out of myself at parents evening...

[Flumplet]

I cried at the teacher at DS's parents evening - and not happy tears. It turns out that 5yo ds isn't doing as great as we thought. Looking through his books he's really struggling to keep up, especially with maths, and I had no idea. His teacher says it's due to his bad behaviour and lack of concentration. He's got a short concentration span which is impacting on his progress considerably, he's not listening, messing about with his friends, and is frequently being kept in at break times to finish work that he isn't finishing in class - sometimes for the entire break. He is excellent at reading and is generally a really smart kid so I'm really surprised by this. We're moving house next week so I wonder if maybe the upheaval may be having an effect. Everything else is fine and normal at home. I've come down on him hard and let him know that it isn't good enough and I've challenged him to get to the top of the behaviour ladder this week for a reward. This has come completely out of the blue as we have never had any complaints about his behaviour before and he's been in nursery since he was 5 months old. I'm gutted, embarrassed and not really sure where to start putting it right.

I agree with others about escalating - don't take it lightly. Children have a legal right to recreation and there is huge amounts of evidence that particularly young boys are suffering long term mental health issues due to lack of outside time and physical activity. In the short term it negatively affects their concentration and performance in school. I would seriously consider moving my child from this school if they won't guarantee him play time.

But the teacher said its school policy to remove time from breaks in these circumstances- won't I look like precious first born / special snowflake if I challenge this again? He doesn't lose the whole break every day but he has done more than once but I'm aware it's at least 10 mins every other day at least out of his recreation.

And yes that's what I thought about the behaviour ladder - why only move him down to red now?

It's all a bit odd. I wish I was more assertive but I guess I'm just too scared of the confrontation with the school (and I know I will cry if I do go back there and have it out - and I don't want them worrying about my mental health state or anything like that). But I do need to have his back - I'm feeling torn between trusting them to do their job (they're professionals after all) and being a supportive mum here.

But the teacher said its school policy to remove time from breaks in these circumstances- won't I look like precious first born / special snowflake if I challenge this again?

No i's an absolutely terrible policy. I would go in with evidence (see here for example and insist that your DS gets his break every day. It is incredibly important for his development and his behaviour. Could you bring your DH or a friend with you for support? Perhaps you could start by emailing?

Yes I'm regretting saying that now I've thought about it but I'll need to follow it through - I know he's making an effort this week and now I feel I've been too hard on him by adding to the pressure he must be under at school.
You don't have to follow anything through, you know. Parenting is a learning experience and there's nothing wrong with admitting something's not working and trying another approach. It's the sme with things like the 'naughty step.' I know a lot of mners swear by it but it's also often considered a way of control by humiliation; punishment by this and other methods doesn't teach children to behave - just to make sure they don't get caught.
Sounds like the school (or at least, this teacher) also follow antiquated methods and your son is caught in the middle, labelled as misbehaving when he's just breaking out in normal ways. I'm sure you're modelling the way he should behave so shouldn't worry too much about him turning out 'badly' on that score.

I have read most of the thread and can't really add to everything everyone has said. BUT my son also had an issue with completing work at this sort of age. His school were brilliant actually, they set up a little timer on the desk so he knew how much time he had. If he completed it within the time he was rewarded with being able to do something that he wanted or could earn a specific toy at golden time. Certainly he was never kept in or punished in anyway but it did give him an incentive. I understand why you were upset but it's for the school to explain how they plan to help/assist his learning. I think you probably cried because there can feel like a lot of guilt when you're trying to juggle work and being mum etc. He's only little, if he was 11 then yeah you've got an issue but when I was that age we were still playing in the sand pit. I think there's a great weight of expectation on these little ones that people my age just didn't have.

Also...I hate the concept where a child of any age is considered a failure. It's not possible. Everything is possible and children should above all else enjoy school.

We always had positive reports of DS1 till he was in year 2, from that point he was always a bit distrated/chatting/not concentrating so I've been in your shoes.
I don't agree with removing breaks but we use this strategy sometimes at the school I work in. If all the other children are completing the work it really depends on why your DS isn't completing his. If he's trying that's fine but if he's being a bit silly he needs to do the work. It's amazing how much work some children can do in 5 minutes of break compared to 20 minutes of lesson. My DS1 included.
The best thing is to work together with the school. I suggested right from y3 that my DS should sit on his own, the school finally went down this route in y5. Start up a home/school diary that both you and the school can record in. That way any future concerns are flagged up straight away. I think you did the right thing letting your DS know you were taking it seriously.
As a parent I know 5 is so young and I really feel for the children in school but as a TA I know children are expected to complete the work they are set. DS1 is 13 now, still prefers a chat than to knuckle down and work so he has had a few detentions as a consequence. He knows how to behave appropriately and knows exactly what the sanctions are if he doesn't.
If your DS reacts well to praise speak to the school about that too.

No wonder kids get stressed. 5 year olds should just be playing in my opinion ... and outdoors when possible. 7 is a good age to start proper learning.

So he's a summer born 5 year old in year 1, who had he been born a little later would be in reception class now?

The teacher should not have been telling you this at parents evening either, nothing at parents evening should be a big shock as they should have spoken to you separately.

It's awful that they keep him in at break as then he is going to struggle even more as he can't run about.

I hate speaking to school too but I think you are perfectly reasonable to speak to them about this

Agree with both the previous posts. Starting school at 7 sounds much better to me. Both of my DS's have late August birthdays and DS1 seemed so little when he started school.
The problems occur if you have a class of 30 and 28 children are on task but 2 are not. Without knowing exactly what your DS is doing and how much of his break he's missing it's hard to say if the teacher is being unreasonable. 5 minutes? I'd say that was acceptable. Over half? He needs more of a break. In my previous school some children took incomplete work home to finish as no children were kept in at break.
Also agree that nothing that is mentioned at parent's evening should be a shock so definitely speak to the school about better communication.

I seriously would go and look at some of the other schools- how 'underperforming' are they? - Ofsted isn't everything, so 'underperforming' may not mean what you think it means- our school is in the 'requires improvement' category but they definitely don't keep 5 year olds in at break. In fact classes in KS1 are often found to be having an extra break if they've been sitting concentrating for too long in one go. Sure there are things that need improvement at the school, but overall on balance I'm happy with what goes on. Somewhere else might suit your DS better.

Thank you all for all of your helpful and constructive replies. I was fully expecting a bit of a flaming for not noticing myself. Thank you

Interestingly when DD1 was messing about in year 1 she was little miss perfect at home . I was absolutely when the teacher pulled me in. Most of us have had DC that have challenged the system at some point it isn't something to be ashamed of.....! And he's only been on red once get some perspective

OP you need to go into school and discuss this calmly on DS's behalf. But first you need to get it into perspective and take a big deep breath. I think we all get angry/ upset on behalf of our children but we need to be reasonable and controlled when dealing with the school. If necessary leave it a couple of days or send his Dad if he's around?

My opinion is it is usually best to go to the teacher first but if you would rather not is there a teacher who has responsibility for the key stage or something? I must admit I wouldn't kick off about the type of punishment but I would go in with the approach of 'I will do everything I can to support the school but I'm worried losing break isn't working/ will be counter productive as he needs to run round.... What else can we do?' The most obvious possibility is a report card of some kind that then you can see what's going on/ reward if he's trying hard but they may have better ideas, I've never taught five year olds.

Sorry the 'dad if he's around' sounds awful, I just didn't want to assume because I couldn't see him mentioned but it came out wrong. I really wish MN had an edit function

Stop worrying. At 5, DD spent her time messing about. She was an excellent reader but in the words of her teacher just " didn't get maths". She used to not do her work at school at all - there were whole pages left blank in her books. She's now in year 3 and top of her class.

She's the youngest in her class so needed time to grow up. I think her teacher this year is also much better at getting her interested in things.

You're doing the right thing addressing the behaviour issue. I'm not sure about him missing out on breaks though. He seems full of energy so missing out on breaks might be making things worse.

Good luck.

He's 5 years old and being punished for behaving like one. Completely inappropriate and probably counterproductive. I know MN don't approve of the summerborn campaign but incidents like this are why I'm delaying my son's entry to school and starting him in reception at 5.

What does you child say about their behaviour, and the playtimes?

May also be worth considering does he like being outside on the playground, or is he avoiding doing his work so he can be kept inside, in the warm and quiet?

You should have been told of serious problems before parents evening - do you ever speak to the teacher in the morning?