I've made a nob out of myself at parents evening...

[Flumplet]

I cried at the teacher at DS's parents evening - and not happy tears. It turns out that 5yo ds isn't doing as great as we thought. Looking through his books he's really struggling to keep up, especially with maths, and I had no idea. His teacher says it's due to his bad behaviour and lack of concentration. He's got a short concentration span which is impacting on his progress considerably, he's not listening, messing about with his friends, and is frequently being kept in at break times to finish work that he isn't finishing in class - sometimes for the entire break. He is excellent at reading and is generally a really smart kid so I'm really surprised by this. We're moving house next week so I wonder if maybe the upheaval may be having an effect. Everything else is fine and normal at home. I've come down on him hard and let him know that it isn't good enough and I've challenged him to get to the top of the behaviour ladder this week for a reward. This has come completely out of the blue as we have never had any complaints about his behaviour before and he's been in nursery since he was 5 months old. I'm gutted, embarrassed and not really sure where to start putting it right.

I'm being semi-serious. I'm a GP. Over the years I have sent maybe 100 kids for hearing tests because parents were concerned they weren't listening. Not a single one has ever come back as showing poor hearing unless there were other reasons to suspect it. Of course, poor attention in class can be one of the symptoms of hearing loss but hearing loss isn't situational and it is totally normal to have to repeat yourself to a 5 year old.

And at the same time ENT consultants told me it's totally normal for parents not to realise how bad their child's hearing is. Ds' hearing was less than 30% and he was lip reading at the time. I just thought it was an attention getter away from his big sisters why he wanted to be carried and turned my mouth towards him when he wanted to talk.

I'm so sorry you had a bad parents evening. My concern would be that it was the first you heard about it. As a teacher I would have communicated with you about it if I couldn't see you at drop off or pick up time. Maybe you only heard the negative, did she say anything positive? Parents evenings can be very stressful for everyone especially so if the teacher is inexperienced.
Also I think the house moving can have a massive impact on how a child behaves in school. Has anything else happened out of school that has disrupted his routine or worried him? Is anything worrying him in school? Does he like his teacher?
Going forward I would arrange a further meeting in the first instance with the teacher and have an idea about how you want things to go forward from now. Put it to them as working together but be clear in your own mind what you know will work with your son and make that your aim. A good teacher will listen to this.
If this does not help have a further meeting with someone from SM.
As for keeping children in for whole of break, words fail me! All current behaviour management techniques say this is not good practice. You want a copy of the behaviour policy and want to know how it improves his performance! I teach extremely challenging children and we all need those break times!
If you need anymore advice just shout out!
Also last year I had a parents evening where 5 people cried! The head asked what I was doing to them! 4 of them were because parents were happy with progress and one where a mum had lost her own parent very recently! It made for a very emotional evening!
Please try not to worry.

He's 5 and you're moving. I wouldn't worry. She should have contacted you before now if things were that serious.

Please don't talk about a 5 year old 'doing the work.' He's tiny, right at the beginning of his school career - I'd have been furious if any one of mine had been kept in at break at that age.
The teacher/school sound very unkind and unrealistic; I hope you find somewhere with a more child-centred approach after you move. It must be difficult to get perspective when you don't get to see much of the school environment or other peers because of work etc, but he sounds completely switched on, just acting like a typical five year old.
If the school are being harsh on him that's all the more reason for you to cut him some slack - he has a long way ahead of him in education. And don't get sad - get angry!

Is his behaviour a problem for you at home or just at school? If it's just at school then apart from reinforcing your expectations of his behaviour, the school will need to find a way to manage it. With regards to his maths, I would ask the school what their expectations of him are and just try to ensure he keeps up with those.

Don't worry about the crying. My DS struggles at school and when his reception teacher first raised it I cried. I'm not a cryer so felt like a complete nana! It's natural to want the absoloute best for your child and it would be weird if you weren't concerned. Having said that I agree with PP that he is only 5yrs old and it is natural that he is just finding his feet. My DD is a late summer 5yr old who saves her shocking behaviour for home time !

And at the same time ENT consultants told me it's totally normal for parents not to realise how bad their child's hearing is. Ds' hearing was less than 30% and he was lip reading at the time. I just thought it was an attention getter away from his big sisters why he wanted to be carried and turned my mouth towards him when he wanted to talk

I don't think we are disagreeing here. Your DS did have other symptoms of hearing loss, it's just that -perfectly understandably because you hadn't come across them before - you didn't immediately realise what they meant.

I'm not saying hearing loss doesn't go unnoticed: it does. That's the whole reason we do mass screening. I'm just saying that having to repeat yourself to a 5 year old is totally and utterly normal

I would look for a different school, one that realises that 5 is very very young

I had such a similar parents evening to you a couple of years ago where they told me my dc was 'exhibiting abnormal behaviour'. This was a massive surprise as we'd never been given any inkling there was a problem. I was asked if I wanted the senco to assess him. I had to ask what the senco was. The teacher then wanted to shuffle me off quickly as if that was the end of the conversation. When I rationalised it...I realised he was only 5 years old and seemed to me intelligent but had difficulties with concentration. The behaviour he displayed involved shaking and anxiety when asked to do tasks which I hadn't really seen at home . I suspected he would grow out of it and low and behold he has. However school didnt offer any strategies to support and never took this any further. I feel like we ask so much of these small children - and not all teachers are capable of bringing out the best in our kids. Some however are awesome..like his teacher the following year.

It sounds like a crappy school and he sounds like a normal five year old. Keeping him in over break is just mean and counterproductive. Time for a school change.

He's five. FIVE.

This would make me cry too.

I have a five year old August boy in Year 1. He's not excellent at reading. Or writing. Or maths. Or behaving. He's FIVE.

If he was being kept in regularly at break I would seriously be looking at other schools.

The fact she's going to 'move the seating around' also worries me. Proper seating plans? At five? FIVE!

Have you taken a look at the national curriculum expectations for year 1? I found them reassuring. If I was you, I'd arm myself with that and arrange a meeting with the teacher, and maybe the head or the person in charge of pastoral support.

I agree it is common for this age boy, I would wait to see. The trouble is the school take it too serious.

I take it she didn't mention any problems at last term's parents' evening? If it's only a recent development, she needs to think about what could be causing that. Your move may be a factor, but there may well also be factors inside school.

The rigid policy about keeping children in if they don't finish their work is quite alarming - how on earth do they deal with the ones who can't finish it due to learning difficulties? I'm afraid it sounds all too typical of the academy approach.

Yes agreed. The schools in this area are terrible and underperforming this was the best of a bad bunch and I'm not happy. Reflecting on his behaviour I think he's pretty typical of a 5 yo at home, he can be cheeky and push his luck but is generally a very fun, charming, sweet natured little chap - I wouldn't say he has behavioural issues and we don't find it difficult to manage him. He visits the naughty step if he oversteps boundaries with being rude and that gives him time to reflect and works well for us. I do hope to change schools but I think we may be stuck at this school for the long haul.

And no this is the very first time I have ever had any complaints about his behaviour from anyone ever. He's always been taught to be polite and respectful.

I have huge sympathy. At 4 a very unsympathetic teacher told us we needed to immediately see a paedatrician as my son was not focusing on his work

I have cried at parent's evenings as well. Quite frankly, if I transpose the way feedback has been delivered by teachers into my corporate environment, people would have been in front of HR and there would have been serious consequences

Stay strong, he is only 5. I would step on missing breaks immediately. Book a meeting and be clear that you expect this teacher to teach - if her methods don't work, she needs to change her style. I am sending a virtual hug as I know how this feels.

I too, have a DD, who is the same - she is incredibly bad at maths but a very able reader. I too, found it out in Y1 at a parents evening. I was astonished. No one ever raised the issue with me.

Now, my DD is in Y3, well ahead of her peers in terms of reading, but unfortunately, I had to come to peace with the fact that she is vary bad at maths. When it comes to it, her mind just wonders off, there is no real motivation to solve any problems etc. It is her trait and nothing will change it. So I do 5-10 min maths work with her nearly every day, and that is about it. We don't neglect it, but we don't make a big fuss about it either. That's who she is.

On the other hand, your son is very young, so you just wait and see.

Also, when it comes to behavioural issues, I would think, that he is fidgety because lack of physical exercise and free play. One of my DSs is like that, messing about quite a bit.

Free play and physical exercise - nothing beats that. More homework at home will not help.

Also, I would never tell him to get good to get to the top of the ladder for a reward. He should behave because it is much nicer than not behaving. However, I suspect words won't really change the fact, that he would need far more free running around.

Yes I'm regretting saying that now I've thought about it but I'll need to follow it through - I know he's making an effort this week and now I feel I've been too hard on him by adding to the pressure he must be under at school. Why don't I feel like I can challenge them harder? they should be supporting him if he needs it not punishing him, right?! This mum guilt thing is a nightmare!

Ds1 was exactly like this at 5yrs. And yes, it was a shock at parents' night although his teacher was at pains to say that it was normal (he was young for the year) and tell us about the techniques she was using to help him with his concentration.

He continued to struggle with concentration and finishing work for the following couple of years but did gradually improve. Part of that was work by the teachers, part was ds1 himself knuckling down, part was him growing up, and part was us working with him at home.

He didn't stay in to finish work but we did ask for any work that the teacher felt he should complete to be sent home (not in P1 though, this was in P3).

Ds1 is now in P6, and although he's still a chatterbox he completes his work and is enjoying subjects like Maths that he struggled with in the earlier years.

It sounds like the teacher has painted a bleaker picture than she/he needed to have done. Ds1's P1 teacher used a timer to help him concentrate in short bursts - maybe that's something that could help?

Could be worse. We had a parents' evening where the teacher cried.

When DS1 was in year 5 i was full of cold and felt like i had a duvet in my head. I introduced his teacher to DH as Mr Penis (not his name) then when i turned to apologise i blew an enormous snot bubble in his face.

That was hard to come back from....

His teacher sounds shit. Making a 5 year old miss his break is just idiotic.

sorry port that did tickle me!

and is frequently being kept in at break times to finish work that he isn't finishing in class - sometimes for the entire break.

This is massively out of order. If he doesn't get time outside and physical activity his concentration is going to suffer. I would absolutely insist that this stops. Children have a legal right to recreation. I would absolutely demand the school stops this immediately.

His teacher says it's due to his bad behaviour and lack of concentration

and yet he moved down to red for the first time last week? That doesn't add up.

and is frequently being kept in at break times to finish work that he isn't finishing in class - sometimes for the entire break.

and they can fuck off with that too - he's 5!

I think you need to escalate.