Are the quiet, bright, studious children destined to sit with the disruptive children as a positive influence on them?

[Thisismynewname123]

I have a very bright, hard working, but quiet daughter in Y5. She has always been happy at school, despite occasional social blips, mostly due to shyness, but she is well liked so nothing too major. Following a class mix, she's now in a class that has a reputation for being loud, and generally "naughty" (although I hate using that word). For the first time she is now dreading going to school on a daily basis. She hates that she has to sit with children who talk constantly (although from the teacher's point of view, I assume she has been put where she is as the good influence). She feels as though she is suffering for it. She can't concentrate. She doesn't get drawn into conversations during lessons when she shouldn't be talking, but that now means she feels as though she isn't making any friends in the new class. I feel like she's generally unhappy at school for the first time but I'm not sure there's anything much I can do. As the "good girl" is she destined to always be put in a small group with the difficult (although bright) children who need the good influence, even though she is suffering for it?

Is it worth raising with the teacher, or is too early in the year and I'll just be told she needs more time to settle? I'm not one to be constantly contacting the teachers about one thing or another. I don't want to be "that parent", so I'm just looking for some guidance on if it's justified or not in this case.

And yes, to be honest in Y5&6 especially, most disruption is caused by NT children.

Op, I'm sorry if your thread has been hijacked. Please go in and speak to your DD's teacher explaining how it's making her unhappy. Good luck.

Firstly, these are absolutely not SN children. They are bright children who just talk too much in class!

OP, while I understand that you were not trying to open this can of worms, I will point out that there is no way you can possibly know this.

As we are now edging into the usual progression of these types of threads, there's really no point in continuing.... rather than posting more, I'll just refer to the search button where you can find previous threads with it all played out before.

Here is what I don't get, my DD has been in this position, she is 7 has HFA very bound by the rules and very well behaved at school, the school set up the desks and put my DD near some of the more chatty/ low level disruption children and she found it really hard and was very stressed and anxious as they kept getting told off. I had to go in and she was moved and is much happier, Now would this be classed as my daughters needs being met or am I being horrid because the other that child may have additional needs.

For what it's worth I have a child with moderate ASD - in a unit attached to a school who is very sensory who has been not included in things before ( which did upset me). I really don't see this is on the same level.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that schools have a great many NT children who are simply disruptive. Some just because they talk incessantly and others because they are attention seeking or just enjoy messing around. They are not bad children but they absolutely are a disruptive influence and a large proportion of them have no additional needs whatsoever.

Property what does NT stand for? Thanks!

Neurotypical. Basically it refers to children without additional needs. It's a term us parents of asd children use regularly.

Ah. Thanks Property .

Just to be clear, when I posted re seating disruptive children together, they do not have additional support needs. They are ones who talk too much/misbehave. By seating them together, I can give them more support with their behaviour, help keep them focused and minimise the noise levels in class by bollocking 'that' table if necessary.

At other times, groups are mixed together. Most of the disruption in my room comes from pupils who feel entitled to talk at any point/mess about. It's like water off a duck's back telling them to stop, or giving them sanctions.

Getting parents in has very little impact, as many of the parents think it's great that they have such a 'confident/talkative/expressive/spirited' child and don't see how problematic this can be.

There are an awful lot of these threads at the moment.

Aren't there just. It's like a few weeks/months ago when repeated wheelchair on buses/disabled toilets threads keep appearing. It's uncanny.

I think you should speak to the teacher as your dd is unhappy.
I'm surprised that schools do this. I'd have thought it more likely the teacher was supporting your child with social skills so she isn't so shy.
Maybe the fact that she is a good girl didn't factor into the teachers decision, it may not be about raising the class standard but giving your child the skills to concentrate when others around her are being disruptive.
Who has given her the idea she has been put there as a good influence?

DD has just gone into Y2 and we're having this exact issue. I went in & raised it with the teacher & it was interesting as, whilst she knew she had paired DD with a particular boy for one set of work & that they were sat at the table for non-ability groups, she hadn't realised that the PPA cover teacher, the IT teacher & the PE teacher were also pairing DD with this boy. Obviously, the PPA, IT & PE teachers weren't aware either.
However, it was also made clear that DD's perception that "all" of her friends "always" sat together was wrong as those well behaved girls have also been paired with lively boys.

Actually, keeptrudging, I've taught in a school that adopted a zero tolerance policy in Y4-6. Parents were being called daily and asked to collect their child for continued low level disruption and I can tell you categorically that it absolutely did make a tangible difference in many cases. Parents tend to stop viewing it as harmless high spirits when they are being forced to leave work early every day. It made the HT very unpopular with some parents and super popular with others and with her staff. Calling parents in for a little chat at their convenience rarely works but corner them into forcing their child to buck up and behave can really do the trick. As a parent I absolutely would want to be called everyday as if damn well make sure my boys knew about it at home. There would be a total ban on seeing mates and on all forms of tv and electronics until I'd gone a full week without being called in. If that didn't work then they'd start missing out on family treats. We always take them away for October half term but I would have no hesitation in letting DH take the others away whilst I stayed home with the culprit having the most boring half term imaginable.

comehomemax - apologies if this has been posted a lot recently. I hadn't realised. I had searched a bit before posting but couldn't find anything. Sorry!

Gillybeanz - no one has given her the idea that she's put there as a good influence. That is my surmising. I may be wrong. I asked my DD more about it last night as I started second guessing myself after all of the comments I got on this thread. She used to be partnered with another girl very similar to her - quiet & hard working (I know the other girl's mum had specifically requested that they sit together as they work well together). There used to be a lot of general low level disruption in the class, so children were moved around to break up the culprits. She is now sitting next a disruptive boy. Her old partner is now seated in front of her, next to a talkative girl. My DD says the talkative girl keeps turning around trying to draw them into conversation. The boy she's next to keeps trying to flip water bottles with the boy on the desk on the other side. (don't you find this bottle flipping thing irritating?!). I think this is all exacerbated by the fact that their teacher has returned from long term sick leave and has been off a lot, and possibly isn't 100% well yet, so she sits at her desk and doesn't walk around the classroom, so my DD says that she doesn't realise what's going on at the back of the class where they are sitting.

Gingerivy - your tone is very aggressive! Yes, I made an assumption which maybe I shouldn't have done without speaking with the teacher. However, if the seating isn't for the good influence, then it's to break up the disruptive children. Either way it has the same effect on my child.

Propertyquandry - I like the zero tolerance idea. Can't see that happening though. I'm thinking it might be a teacher issue. She's off sick a lot, so there is very little stability in who takes the class each day, and possibly therefore a lack of control in the classroom.

As far as I know this boy has no hidden disabilities before anyone suggests he has. He's academically very bright, excellent at sport but his behaviour in class can be pretty bad at times.

Which means you have no idea whatsoever if he has any disabilities. Academic level or sporting skills are not an indicator of a lack of disability.

However, if the seating isn't for the good influence, then it's to break up the disruptive children.

Again, you don't know that either. You won't know until you've spoken to the teacher.

But you have no idea that he has either Ginger.

You're right. I don't. But at least I'm open minded enough to consider the possibility, rather than just assuming there isn't simply because he's academic and good at sports.

I haven't assumed anything. Just going off what I've witnessed since reception.

Yes, actually you have. You don't know, so you're going off what you've seen - which is basically making an assumption, as there's no way you can realistically know if he does or does not have a hidden disability.

So what about my child Ginger? Does he not count? Did it not matter that he was struggling sitting next to this boy?

I didn't say your child didn't count. I didn't say your child didn't matter. I said you cannot possibly know that the other child has no hidden disability.

Don't know. I don't know that child, your child, or the teacher. I was simply pointing out that you cannot know that the child has no hidden disability.

That doesn't change the fact that you've already stated you were basing your assumption on whether or not he had a hidden disability on simply what you've seen, which is simply not fact. So why the need to point that out - that "As far as I know this boy has no hidden disabilities before anyone suggests he has."

It's just another way of heading off anyone that might find fault with the judgement that this boy is just badly behaved. It's done over and over on MN. It's just another way of shutting down those that might point out, quite rightly, that actually you don't know.