Is 8.5YO DD doing too much? (Long)

[notquitesureagain]

This is long but I would really appreciate some considered, non-judgey responses. DD is in year 3, she's 8 and a half. She does suzuki music, which is quite a big commitment (practice every day for up to half an hour, and an individual and group lesson each week). Other than that, she does a couple of sports clubs at school (one in the morning, one in the afternoon) - these are things she really wants to do (cried bitterly when I signed up two late one term and she didn't get to do one of them). There are no exams or certificates so there's no pressure associated with them.

She was doing a swimming lesson too but we're dropping that as of this week because she doesn't like it (and neither does other DC) so frankly I'm v happy not to have to pay for it and/or ferry them there each week.

At school they are given one homework a week (should take 30 mins a week but she really dawdles so it prob takes longer) and have to write comments about whatever book they've been reading.

So essentially all she does other than the 9-3 at school is 30 mins music practice a day, and the week's homework at weekends.

But, we tried to do music practice before school today and she got upset on the way to school because it hadn't gone well. I asked the head teacher if I could walk her to the classroom because she was upset and instead the HT swept her away into her own office and told me to leave it with her. Afterwards HT called to say she was concerned about DD's workload and thought she was doing too much for her age. there is a backstory here - 2 years ago, we made a complaint about a teacher at the school because we felt she just wasn't learning anything at all; she started off a really competent reader in reception/Y1 and then stayed at the same book level for two years without anyone batting an eyelid. She just stopped engaging in class.

Things have improved now and I really like her current teacher, and DD seems to be regained some of her enthusiasm for reading etc But I think the HT (who is VERY protective of her school and teachers) has just marked us out as pushy parents and therefore dismisses everything we say. I'm trying really hard not to be defensive about it, but I don't think we do push her too hard. We don't do anything above and beyond the homework that the school sets (which isn't very onerous) and she has a lot of time just mucking about with her sibling each day just making dens and whatnot.

To complicate things further, younger sibling keeps telling me she is bored at school e.g. the maths is really basic (they've got her writing numbers 1 to 100, which she could do in nursery). Lots of other parents in the same class have complained but I don't feel I can say anything because it'll just be another black mark against my name.

So, I guess I want to know what people think is reasonable for an 8-year-old to do?

She's not on book 4 yet! Towards end of book 3. But one of the kids in her group played a Vivaldi piece from book 4 and she loved it, and is keen to get onto it. HT knows nothing really about her level on music or what she does (beyond their chat the other day).

She started when she'd just turned 4 but went v slowly to begin with (took us a long time to get into the habit of daily practice). So took 2.5-3 years to get through book 1, then she just really took off and seems to have whizzed through books 2 and 3. I thonk it all changed when she really started to enjoy it and play tunes she liked etc

can you change schools? it doesn't sound great from what you've said on here...

Paulat2112 Do you mind if I ask you whereabouts you are in the country? My DD2 is 6 (very young yr2) and a very good swimmer. She's really keen to join a swimming club but none of the ones I've found will take children until they are 8, or let them complete until they are 9. (One told me they can compete at 8 in Wales, but we don't live in Wales!)

amidawish Reluctant to change schools because on the whole DC are actually really happy there. I think academically it hasn't actually been great for them in some ways but I've felt up until now that what it lacks in academics it makes up for in other areas. I love the fact the proximity, the fact that they have a good friendship group and (with the exception of DD's sad morning last week) trot off to school happily each morning.

More broadly the school has a v good reputation - lots of Y6 kids go onto very sought-after secondaries etc but I know that a lot of tutoring goes on, which skews the results a bit. I remember years ago someone saying to me that she was always wary of applying for the most popular school in the area at that time because they tend to get a bit complacent. I didn't listen at the time and wonder if that's what's happened here - I think it's important that concerns raised by parents are addressed. Obviously parents aren't always going to be right or know what's best for their kids, but I haven't heard of one example where a concern has been taken on board. HT just seems to have a habit of explaining away any criticism of the school by deflecting attention back onto parents.

We are in Scotland Land0r dd was 6 when she joined and was only doing 2 hours a week but she has moved upthree squad levels in the year she has been there. I don't think they tend to take them on that young but she is very good. I know that sounds like boasting but its not. She does struggle though as some comps are not suitable for her but there is still lots for her. Some of her school friends have started in the pre club which is for ages 6-8. Is there anything like that for her?

Paulat2112 Your DD sounds a fab swimmer! Great that she's found something she loves doing. The only thing we have here (other than swim clubs which won't take them until 8) is the swim academy, which follows on from the ASA staged (toddler to stage 7) swimming lessons. The academy is great and covers the criteria for stages 8-10, but is also more 'club like' - they do some land training as well as pool work, starts and turns etc. DD2 has come up through the ASA stages quickly and is just about to move into this from her stage 7 class, but it's only one hour a week. She would like to join a club alongside this if possible, but I think she's just going to have to wait!

Sorry OP, your thread wasn't about swimming clubs!

OP - I am sorry to hear your HT rattled you. Hopefully you are now as confident as you were previously that you are doing what is right for your family.

Lavender - Sewing is a lovely and valuable activity to do with your children. Most people learn from their mother or grandmother. You are blessed to be able to pass that skill on.

Just a suzuki comment - my DD started piano at 4, and will have taken just under three years to get through book 1. It is really nice to know that other children can work slowly through the first book, and that sometimes progress can speed up through later books. It obviously isn't a race but I'm not a musician (did some basic stuff so have helped DD develop good technique a bit proud of that) and I am not able to help with duets or demonstrations. I was a bit worried it was me that was causing her progress to be on the slow side!

whattodosue really don't worry about slow progress through book 1. There is so much to learn there and the pieces at the end are really quite tricky. It actually gets a lot easier again (technically speaking) at the start of book 2. It's worth taking your time in the early days because it makes a big difference to technique if you do it thoroughly. Also, it's a really long game and if your goal is for the to have the skills to play well and have a lifelong enjoyment of music, I firmly believe that a few months or even a year or two here or there in the early days really doesn't make a blind bit of difference in the long run.

Land0r she is good but she really enjoys it and has fun, as well as keeping her fit. That sounds quite like pre club, that is the same sort of things they teach them. So that when they join the club the know how to turn, basic diving etc.Hopefully she won't have to wait too long, maybe if you keep pestering them they will let her in to train with them lol

OP, I just caught up with the thread.

I feel at that point she really started putting words into DD's mouth

I suspected as much, which was why I asked what was said when the HT spoke to your DD. It is really daunting (and not a little scary!) for a kid of 8 to handle a meeting with the head teacher on their own, especially when they are already upset. She probably felt that she had to agree with everything, because she was worried she'd be in trouble otherwise. Poor thing.

Don't worry about her doing too much - she isn't. After all, there are children out there who are busy being Matilda in the West End, and they manage all right!

There is no method of learning an instrument properly that doesn't involve relentless repetition. It's only by repetition that you master the technique. If you learnt an Eastern European method for example you'd be doing endless technical exercises over and over again. You will have to do them eventually once you've finished the Suzuki repertoire.

In Suzuki the technical exercises are absorbed into the pieces so you're learning them without realising. That's why it's important that you keep the repertoire under your fingers right the way back to book 1.

A lot of listening can really speed things up - not just at breakfast but in the car on the way to and from school etc. If you already know the piece from memory in your head, it's much quicker to learn.

Thanks Notquite. She is enjoying it, which is the main thing.

ManonLescaut we were a bit lax about listening for a while, but we have been doing loads lately, and it really has made a difference. My DS was asking for the book 2 CD, so I'm going to start with that too.

I don't think your DD is being over scheduled. I have a DS who is about the same age. He has an hour piano lesson a week outside school and "practices" on the other days for 15 minutes. He has a singing lesson during the school day and does choir during a lunchtime. He also swims 2 times a week after school, has a drama club after school one day a week, and plays football twice a week. He reads overnight, and has a very small amount of homework over the weekend. He still has loads of time to play lego and goof around and is perfectly happy. In fact, he wants me to schedule an additional swim session - it is me who is reluctant to add another hour!

not reads overnight (!!!) but reads at night (before bed).

mominatrix thanks - I really think she's fine. If it were up to her she'd be doing tap as well but I drew the line at that. She's keen to start piano in September too. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it...

It's been a useful, if stressful, process all this. i think the HT was meddling (had a meeting with her this morning during which she didn't show the slightest inclination to listen to what we were saying - she is incredibly defensive). It became even more clear how anti the Suzuki thing is. I don't have the time or inclination though to argue with her about of it. I think I will just steer well clear in future. However it did prompt me to make absolutely clear to DD that she is under no pressure to do any activity she doesn't want to do, which can only be a good thing to reinforce.

Lots of people are anti Suzuki without knowing anything about it. I don't think that Dd's teachers have any idea that we do Suzuki. A lot of people think that Suzuki is hot housed two year olds doing 2 hours of practice a day.

I think it really depends on the child. Some kids aren't that interested in kicking back and watching TV, they genuinely prefer to be doing other things.

When my dd was 7/8, she wanted to do activities every night and at the weekends as well. She would sign up for anything and everything, and beg to be allowed to do stuff. It was a struggle to fit everything in around my work and family life, and I often worried if she was doing too much, but she seemed to really thrive on it and I didn't want to deny her the opportunity of giving things a go.

Now, she is nearly 11. She does far fewer activities than she used to, partly because she has become much more picky about what she does and partly because she seems to feel the need for more reading time down time. I'm happy for her to find her own balance.

Currently, she dances for 3-5 hours a week, swims once a week and sings in the school choir. She has become increasingly "into" dance, and so weekends are often taken up with exams/competitions/rehearsals/shows etc. She has lots of friends through dance, and she enjoys the social aspect as well as the dancing.

I think you have to be guided by your child and let them take the lead. Obviously, cost and logistics may play a part. FWIW, our state primary has a fab little orchestra and goodness knows how many other free clubs for the kids to join. Sadly, dd was never interested in playing an instrument as she didn't fancy the daily practice!

The vast majority of non-musical people haven't the remotest idea what is involved in any kind of musical training, whatever method.

She won't have the first idea of what Suzuki is all about. Furthermore it's absolutely none of her business.

I have never heard an intelligent teacher question Suzuki training. And by everything you have said in this thread, I do not believe her to be intelligent.

"I have never heard an intelligent teacher question Suzuki training. And by everything you have said in this thread, I do not believe her to be intelligent."

Suzuki is controversial and I feel it's unfair to describe its critics as unintelligent. It is possible to disagree with someone without rudeness. There are aspects of Suzuki like have to memorise every single piece and in a book and not teaching sight reading until book 4 which doesn't suit some. A very high level of involvement is expected from the parent and possibly the Suzuki method has a repruation for attracting tiger mothers.

I don't think it is that controversial tbh and I'm not being rude, I'm simply being honest based on my experience.

It's not actually true that sight reading isn't taught until book 4. It depends on the teacher - the best teachers teach sightreading from the start as a seperate entity (rhythmic patterns, tonic solfa etc). Not all children want to memorise, not all parents have the option to be involved, but that's not a criticism of the method per se, it just means it's not suitable for everyone.

Children generally get on faster with an involved/musical parent, whatever method.

My Childrens Suzuki teacher teaches sight reading from the beggining. It is much less important, and we have been a little lax about it, but it is very much learnt (slowly at this stage) alongside. But someone did comment in surprise that I was a tiger mum (only half joking), when they found out we had a lesson before school.

As a non-musical person, it does now just feel like the commitment of learning an instrument (which I didn't have as a child).

I think it's rude to describe someone who doesn't like the Suzuki method as unintelligent.

Using Suzuki materials does not make someone a Suzuki teacher. Memorisation of all the pieces is a fundermental part of the method.

Dd's teacher has qualifications in how to use the Suzuki material. She told me that Suzuki purists do not introduce sight reading until the start of book 4. However she chooses to introduce sight reading when the child is roughly nine (even if they are not book 4 standard) so that they can join in local orchestras.

Definetly true that not knowing about/not liking Suzuki doesn't by default make you unintelligent. Also true that there are trained (with qualifications) Suzuki teachers (like ours) that do introduce sight reading (in terms of learning the relationship between notes and keys and written music) before book 4. Doesn't mean the children aren't playing by ear.

I guess the point is that a lot of people don't really understand suzuki. There are some who understand and don't like it, some don't like the practice every day thing. But in many cases it is a lack of understanding. I'm sure there are purists who don't do theory/sight reading until the children are really advanced. But theory is a part of Suzuki. Bryanston (the huge Suzuki summer school) does sight reading classes for children doing the level 5 theory exam. And I guess different teachers approach that differently.

It's kind of funny, Suzuki and Kumon are both Japanese method, and have similar reputation. I think there is clash of cultural expectation. In Japan, hard work and repetition aren't necessarily seen as a bad thing. They may actually be seen as a virtue. Of course some people agree and some disagree. But in England, it seems like these always seems to be associated with "pushy" parenting.