Is 8.5YO DD doing too much? (Long)

[notquitesureagain]

This is long but I would really appreciate some considered, non-judgey responses. DD is in year 3, she's 8 and a half. She does suzuki music, which is quite a big commitment (practice every day for up to half an hour, and an individual and group lesson each week). Other than that, she does a couple of sports clubs at school (one in the morning, one in the afternoon) - these are things she really wants to do (cried bitterly when I signed up two late one term and she didn't get to do one of them). There are no exams or certificates so there's no pressure associated with them.

She was doing a swimming lesson too but we're dropping that as of this week because she doesn't like it (and neither does other DC) so frankly I'm v happy not to have to pay for it and/or ferry them there each week.

At school they are given one homework a week (should take 30 mins a week but she really dawdles so it prob takes longer) and have to write comments about whatever book they've been reading.

So essentially all she does other than the 9-3 at school is 30 mins music practice a day, and the week's homework at weekends.

But, we tried to do music practice before school today and she got upset on the way to school because it hadn't gone well. I asked the head teacher if I could walk her to the classroom because she was upset and instead the HT swept her away into her own office and told me to leave it with her. Afterwards HT called to say she was concerned about DD's workload and thought she was doing too much for her age. there is a backstory here - 2 years ago, we made a complaint about a teacher at the school because we felt she just wasn't learning anything at all; she started off a really competent reader in reception/Y1 and then stayed at the same book level for two years without anyone batting an eyelid. She just stopped engaging in class.

Things have improved now and I really like her current teacher, and DD seems to be regained some of her enthusiasm for reading etc But I think the HT (who is VERY protective of her school and teachers) has just marked us out as pushy parents and therefore dismisses everything we say. I'm trying really hard not to be defensive about it, but I don't think we do push her too hard. We don't do anything above and beyond the homework that the school sets (which isn't very onerous) and she has a lot of time just mucking about with her sibling each day just making dens and whatnot.

To complicate things further, younger sibling keeps telling me she is bored at school e.g. the maths is really basic (they've got her writing numbers 1 to 100, which she could do in nursery). Lots of other parents in the same class have complained but I don't feel I can say anything because it'll just be another black mark against my name.

So, I guess I want to know what people think is reasonable for an 8-year-old to do?

Your dd does not sound like she is doing too much. Dd(7 but y3) does
Every evening 10 mins clarinet and half an hour violin
Tuesday school orchestra , homework
Wednesday tap and modern, followed by music practice when we get home
Every other Thursday group violin lessons
Friday individual violin lesson
Saturday choir
Sunday swim
She still gets lots of time to sit around/ play

If they don't practice they get demotivated that they aren't achieving... Don't think what you are doing is remotely excessive

Thanks v much indeed, people. She really does seem absolutely fine and not 'under stress' at all. But it's v reassuring to know that other kids her age are doing plenty of stuff

Better get on with that music practice

I'm just a normal parent, but it sounds as if your daughter might be inclined to be a perfectionist. In her case, does she hesitate to get on with work in school in case it isn't absolutely right? Maybe she gets upset if she gets things wrong, rather than using the mistakes as a tool to help make fewer mistakes next time? You mention that "she really dawdles".

DD will be 9 next month (so has done year 3). She does loads more dance/sport/music (as do lots, but not all, of her friends). I know them reasonably well, so I can only say that I THINK they have a different attitude/outlook.

The school really encourages everybody to "have a go, but try hard" . They tell the kids that "making mistakes is one of the best ways of learning". Most of the children aren't too bothered if things aren't quite right because they have been taught ways to minimise the chance of them making the same mistake again. That is not true of all the class (it is good to compare notes with other parents; whereas my daughter might have little/no homework another might have an hour+ because they wanted to rewrite it umpteen times so it was neater and didn't get much done in class).

I think what I am saying is that your daughter needs a bit of encouragement to reassure her that is is okay to have a bad day with practice and work with her teachers to give her some techniques to help her attack classwork/homework so she isn't left with the stress of a lot of schoolwork after school.

Re the viola, I also think it is important to ENJOY playing. Is it really a disaster if agree with the teacher to adjust the schedule (or is it not how it works)?

I just think these junior years ought to be huge fun (and that might mean hurtling about like a lunatic for some kids and a more relaxed pace for others).

Suzuki is tough because the expectations are so high. Managing frustration is a good lesson in life. Of course the is the expectation that any child can achieve if they are prepared to work which th average British state school doesn't always share.

Learning the violin involves peaks and troughs. For example dd has had a real struggle to master Minuet 2 I Suzuki book 1. Dd's violin teacher broke the piece down into small parts. It taken her 6 weeks to master the piece. Sometimes the child is making progress and they don't realise it. Suzuki should never be a race to finish the book. Developing quality technique is more important than getting the pieces ticked off.

My daughter is doing Suzuki, but she only does 20 minutes a day of practice. I suggest you do the listening while your child has breakfast and do th practice after school.

I would think the amount of stuff is not the problem.

The staying on the same book level for 2 years - how? Did you read regularly with her at home, and did she not progress at home either?

I don't know about the suzuki method so I may be way off here but I wonder if it's got a bit samey or too much of a treadmill for her? My DD does an instrument through normal state school lessons so much less of a commitment. She still practices a few times a week but it's just something that is squeezed in round the more interesting stuff in her life like gym, trampolining, brownies.

My son learnt guitar by the traditional method and dd is learning violin by the Suzuki method. I think that making progress in music involves hard work whatever method you use. The expectation that everything is fun is unrealistic. Not everything is edutainment.

Suzuki expects pupils to carry on practicing all the pieces that they have learnt previously which can get a bit boring. However this allows for the development of good technique. Maybe it would help to video your child playing one of her pieces now and three months time. I got a video of dd playing the wretched Twinkle Twinkle little star a year ago and now. The diffrerence is dramatic.

Two.

That is how many structured activities my kids will be allowed as they get older. i.e. during the primary years. I don't want my kids burning the candle at both ends. I want them to go out and play with their friends, watch TV, do homework, be BORED!!! Activities are great but when do children have the time to learn to like their own company and to be creative and imaginative during periods of boredom?

Beavers on a weekday evening (he's signed up for) and swimming on a Saturday morning is what my 4 year old will be allowed. He likes football and if he wants to join a club, he will have to drop one of his activities. The youngest is only 15 months and come September she will be joining a gymnastics club for tots at our local soft play centre because that is what is she good at - bloody climbing! But like her brother, she too will be limited because we can't bloody afford all these activities and I want my kids to be KIDS

Each to their own! Someone will tell me their child enjoys it, wants to do it blah-blah-blah. And I hope they do and hope they aren't one of these competitive, excitable kids who wants to do everything and does it to be the best and be 'top-dog' rather than for pure enjoyment.

Because I work (part time), my older children go to breakfast club two days a week, at 7.30 and get picked up at 6. They are p1 and p4 ( 5 and 8) so have a reading book and maths homework each week.
DS1 has choir and taekwondo and DS2 has football and taekwondo. That is plenty, financially and timewise. We like to keep our weekends free, both boys come to watch football with DH and I ( different teams).
DD is 2. She does a dance class while at nursery and we'll swap that for football when she's three.
There is musical tuition at school, but not until they're older.

Bless, when your pfb is four year olds you have all kinds of intentions.

As your children get older and opportunities come along its hard to say no. As your child gets more proficient extra curricular activites take up more time and money.

What is too many activities depends on the family, finances and child.

DS1 who is 10 goes to youth club for 2 hours per week and that is it. He has a busy school life, minimal home work and should practice the piano, but doesn't much and he is still tired out. DS2 is the same. Gymnastics for an hour a week and then the usual homework and school. Just school is enough really for most young children.

Plus we find that loads of extra activities tires out the whole family and since we work as a unit that has to be taken into account

actually Really we have a 2 activities per week rule for our 6 and 10 year olds. Anymore is too much for us as a family unit. I think quark has the right idea

If your Dd is telling the head that she feels she has too much on, maybe she has? No 8 year old should feel pressured into anything - even if it's not you doing the pressuring. I know parents want their kids to have varied cultured lives but like the HT said there's a lot to be said for just sitting staring at the wall. It's not what seems too much for us that's important but what your daughter perceives as being too much. Give her the option to drop something and she can always return to it. We're not all destined to be amazing musicians or sports personalities. Some people are happy just being without the additional stimulation

Quark - yeah I said exactly that.

I think you will only stick to that if you never let them try anything new. Say they're 6 and loving ballet and swimming, but they beg to try gym too. It's not exactly child abuse to let them have a go in case they prefer gym, then not actually force them to drop one when they love all 3 and beg to keep them all.

How about if the 3rd thing is just half a term of lessons at after school club, and all their closest friends are doing it too? Would that stop your kids being KIDS? Or would you make them give up a longstanding hobby or ban them from doing the 6 weeks?

It really doesn't matter what other DCs are doing. You know your DD. You should know if it's too much for her or not.
When DS was 4/5, he attended 3 or 4 classes per week. When he was 5/6, he struggled with it so we cut everything back. Now, at 7, he is asking for different activities and we are phasing them back in.

How much they can cope with, depends on how they are feeling emotionally and what else is impacting on them. I don't think it is a static calculation.

My yr 5 dd does:

• athletics after school for an hour once a week
• music club after school for an hour once a week
• piano lessons for 20-30 mins a week during the school day
• gymnastics two evening per week for 2 hours at a time (plus occasional whole day training on a Sunday, and occasional competitions)
• dancing for 45 mins on Saturdays

We've just dropped Sunday morning swimming for a term so that we can have some whole days out as a family.

It does sound a lot, and I spend a lot of time driving to and from stuff (have 2 other children who also do activities, though currently less than dd), but she still seems to have enough time at home messing about putting on 'shows' with her siblings, or watching TV or playing with lego.

There are no other children locally, so just popping out to play with friends isn't an option.

It's different horses for different courses really isn't it?

Obelisk for us its not stopping them trying anything new, it is the understanding that they are part of a family unit, we both have very demanding jobs and the DC have to understand that they can't do everything they want to. There is only so much energy to expend ferrying them around to all of these things

quark I think a few of us answered your question about down time on the first page? Maybe second?

Technically my DD only does on activity - swimming club - but she has to train several hours a week.

Dd's club is excellent, they have several social events a year, make the training sessions fun, heck each session they socialise as well. Then there are of course the sides to things you don't see or think of. At competitions they don't swim for the full time they are there (obviously!) but they feel what its like to be part of a team, support friends, have fun, meet other teams and new friends. We recently competed in a mini league (mini as in age of the kids) that was several hours drive away. The club hired a coach for us all, we stopped in several places including historical towns, beaches, parks an then they treated us all to fish and chips on the way home! The kids all had a blast on and off the bus, making memories and friendships!

I said that about my kids quark, two activities each! Thinking a swimming lesson and then something else e.g karate,football,dancing,beavers but actually when your child finds something they are passionate about (not necessarily good at!) most parents will do whatever they can within reason to enable them to do it. What will happen if in future your 4 year old does join a football cub, they train one night a week and then a match on a Sunday morning, will you class that as two activities?

Excuse the typos, I hate my phone. Dont get a windows phone. Stick with Apple! Lol

Funny that's fair enough, of course there are all sorts of constraints that can limit the number of activities - mainly finances and time, especially in larger families. With 2 WOHPs it can be hard enough to get any activities in, frankly, though it gets easier as they get older and the activities start later. But quark's post reads as if the quality of childhood decreases with every extra activity over 2, and I don't think that's the case. It sounds about right for YR tbh, but not for my 9 year old. Of course she needs downtime, but she can squeeze in gym, an hour of tramp and brownies without being relentlessly overscheduled.

Quark

If your famiily budget allows for two activities each for your children that's absolutely fine.

But please don't use it for groundless criticism of others.

most of my children's peers do several activities a week and a see no evidence of the behaviour you describe.

There's plenty of time for free play and creativity.

Doing activities isn't necessarily a out achieving awards or winning anything. It's about learning something new, and learning that commitment leads to progress, it's learning how to work cooperatively with others, it's about learning an appreciation of the arts, it's about health and fitness and safety.

Besides which the fact that I choose to spend more on activities than you does not make be a bad parent.

I would have thought that it was too much before I became a parent. Now I've got one child who would choose to do two activities every evening and dance all weekend (I don't let her) and one who likes to chill at home. I would be doing both of them a disservice if I forced the one who likes to be busy to do much less, or the one who likes to chill to do much more.

Of course, I do enforce some limits. The one who likes to chill is doing swimming lessons, as I think learning to swim is a safety issue. The one who likes to be busy is settling for dance twice a week rather than three times, and I made her choose either gym or Brownies. But there is an strong element of knowing what works for each individual child, as well as what works (financially and time-wise) for the family as a whole.

It really depends on the child, if it feels right for your child and she enjoys the activities, just keep going and don't worry about what others do or say. I have a Reception child who also does plenty of activities but she gets very bored if she is not active, she can do lots of things. Just because your daughter got upset or tired one day, it really means very little. If she was consistently pushing back it is a separate issue, but they will always have one day when they are tired and say they don't want to do x or y.

Maybe see if you just scale down the music practice a little, it is teacher dependent but if 30min is too much, why not try 20min per day? The teacher will probably not even notice. As long as she is focused during the practice, that should be fine, too.

Kids these days don't do enough sports these days, I would say if they do Maths camp after school every day or Kumon that is certainly too much, but if they do swimming or gymnastics, dancing or football, that is very good for them.

Sorry for another long absence. In answer to a couple of queries:

Foofoobum Thing is, DD didn't exactly 'tell' the head that, the head asked her if she felt she had too much on, which isn't exactly the same thing. i.e. this isn't something that came spontaneously from her, I think she just said yes because it was the head teacher asking her and she was a bit tired and upset. I did ask her if she wanted to give anything up, and she said categorically no (she got quite upset at the idea of having to give anything up in fact). She does, as I say, have loads of time to stare at the wall - I'm not suggesting she should become "amazing musician or sports personality". I was just trying to ascertain from other posters what is a reasonable amount for an 8YO to be doing. I've got my answer, and am confident she isn't overloaded at all. I honestly think - having had a few days to reflect on it – that the HT has overstepped the mark here.

Obeliskherder yes, we read at home, and she progressed plenty in that time. My concern wasn't really that she wasn't progressing but that the school had her on the same reading level for two years without ever seeming to notice (during that time I let her switch to reading books from home rather than the school ones, which she and other DC find dead boring theme-wise). But, when they assessed her they put her back on the same level she'd been at in Y1. And no-one brought it up with me, DD told me herself and i went to talk to the teacher about it. I think if a child has apparently been on the same level for two years (at that point in education), that it's something the teacher should look into i.e. either she'd been wrongly assessed or she wasn't making progress and needed some kind of additional support in partnership with parents. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me what reading 'level' she is on, but there needs to be some indication that progress is being made, that she is learning. I suspect, because she was a strong reader at the outset and that they were confident she'd get the requisite level in her stage 1 SATS etc, no-one really bothered to look into it until I intervened.

Sanama yes, you make a good point about practice. We do cut down the time on days when she seems tired. And I totally agree about physical stuff - I really do think they need plenty of running around time whether that's in the park or in a gymnastics class

ReallyTired Good to hear from another suzuki parent. I guess, as well as the technique, the point of the review pieces is that they get to enjoy being able to play something competently so it's not all struggling with the new piece. But I agree that the repetition can get a bit boring - we've dropped doing book 1 review now, and just go back as far as one book IFYSIM. Also, DD is keen on folk music so I bought her a book of jigs to sightread instead of just plodding through the standard sightreading pieces, which has made a big difference. She's back to being super keen this week (there's a piece in book 4 that she really wants to get onto so she's started practicing without me nudging her). I love the idea of recording and then rewatching after a long break - that could be really encouraging

Being on book 4 by the age of eight is a massive achievement. How long has she been learning violin.

Dd who has being learning violin for 5 terms now is only just coming to the end of book 1 and learning Minuet 3 at the moment. Dd had her seventh birthday last month.

Clearly your daughter is very able and picks up new stuff quickly. I suppose the head might wonder how your daughter has got to such a high standard at such an early age.

Going off thread I wonder how you got your daughter to make such good progress in so short a time.