Is 8.5YO DD doing too much? (Long)

[notquitesureagain]

This is long but I would really appreciate some considered, non-judgey responses. DD is in year 3, she's 8 and a half. She does suzuki music, which is quite a big commitment (practice every day for up to half an hour, and an individual and group lesson each week). Other than that, she does a couple of sports clubs at school (one in the morning, one in the afternoon) - these are things she really wants to do (cried bitterly when I signed up two late one term and she didn't get to do one of them). There are no exams or certificates so there's no pressure associated with them.

She was doing a swimming lesson too but we're dropping that as of this week because she doesn't like it (and neither does other DC) so frankly I'm v happy not to have to pay for it and/or ferry them there each week.

At school they are given one homework a week (should take 30 mins a week but she really dawdles so it prob takes longer) and have to write comments about whatever book they've been reading.

So essentially all she does other than the 9-3 at school is 30 mins music practice a day, and the week's homework at weekends.

But, we tried to do music practice before school today and she got upset on the way to school because it hadn't gone well. I asked the head teacher if I could walk her to the classroom because she was upset and instead the HT swept her away into her own office and told me to leave it with her. Afterwards HT called to say she was concerned about DD's workload and thought she was doing too much for her age. there is a backstory here - 2 years ago, we made a complaint about a teacher at the school because we felt she just wasn't learning anything at all; she started off a really competent reader in reception/Y1 and then stayed at the same book level for two years without anyone batting an eyelid. She just stopped engaging in class.

Things have improved now and I really like her current teacher, and DD seems to be regained some of her enthusiasm for reading etc But I think the HT (who is VERY protective of her school and teachers) has just marked us out as pushy parents and therefore dismisses everything we say. I'm trying really hard not to be defensive about it, but I don't think we do push her too hard. We don't do anything above and beyond the homework that the school sets (which isn't very onerous) and she has a lot of time just mucking about with her sibling each day just making dens and whatnot.

To complicate things further, younger sibling keeps telling me she is bored at school e.g. the maths is really basic (they've got her writing numbers 1 to 100, which she could do in nursery). Lots of other parents in the same class have complained but I don't feel I can say anything because it'll just be another black mark against my name.

So, I guess I want to know what people think is reasonable for an 8-year-old to do?

Sounds fine OP.

My DD is 9 and her school gives a little more homework than yours and she does cross- country, netball, judo, swimming and riding, plus plays the cornet, all are 45 min or 1 hour clubs or lessons. She reads every night at bedtime and does cornet practice when she wants to, usually a couple of 20 min sessions a week. And her school does endless interventions so she starts school 30 minutes early 3 times a week. She's just given up cricket. This is what she wants to do, she goes to bed at 8 and gets up at 7, she's fine.

We have neither the time nor the money (nor the transport) to take dd to lessons every night. We make it work for what she's interested in and what we can afford.

It doesn't sound too much to me at all, but it depends on the child I suppose.

It depends on the child:
Dd2 at that age did: Trumpet practice (15 minutes each night)
Mondays: Brownies and Trumpet
Tuesday: Orchestra, Singing and reading group at the library
Wednesday: Judo, Choir and Jazz and Tap
Thursday: (different) choir, gym and musical theatre
Friday: Ballet
Saturday: Ballet

Ds is that age and he does: Every day 10 minutes of each violin and drum
Monday: Gym
Tuesday: Cubs
Wednesday: Tap and Jazz
Thursday: Drumming (fortnightly)
Friday: Tennis
Saturday: Violin

He's started drumming this term and will be finishing gym because he can't cope with too much, so is choosing to stop that in order to take up the drums.

They both had/have about 45 minutes homework a week.

Dd1 did between the two amounts.
If they enjoy it, and aren't getting too tired by doing it then it is fine.

So OP, what you are doing us fine but many posters are delighted at the opportunity to play Top Trumps.

It doesn't sound a lot; is Suzuki music demanding? Does she enjoy it? Can she practice at a different time? My DD can also get frustrated when she doesn't get the music right. I don't think the Head Teacher should have got involved unless there are some other concerns.

My DD is 9 and she does 2 activities per day on Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays; one club in school and a sport outside school. On Wednesdays she does a club a school and on Friday at activity outside.

She still gets time to play with her sibling and everything is local and not competitive; the activities are fun and enjoyable, She still gets time to relax, she only has one homework per week and has to read everyday, practice maths sometimes.

She is not allowed TV/iPad during school days from Monday to Thursday as it gets on the way of things.

It is probably me getting tired going back and forward in the 3 days I do the run; planning on cutting to an activity per day next term.

lavender you are just coming across as a bit jealous and petty now rather than judgy.

Sorry Paula. I know it sounds jealous but in my world we just don't have access to multiple sport and music lessons.

My girls are allowed two different activities per week, they chose dance and sport, each activity lasts for 1 hour but with prep and travel it takes 2 hours and by the time we come home,change,have dinner and finish all their after school stuff it's 8pm and it's time for bed.
mondays are our homework days, wednesday is our lovely free day and the rest is full of activities but i have four children so busy for me, not too bad for them.
weekends are strictly just days out and family fun. my children are 7,7,8 and 4

What do you mean in your world? Do you mean where you live or are we talking money here? As i said, swimming club is the only thing dd does, the squad levels are different prices (obv higher squads train more so cost more), we pay £40 a month for dd which works out at £10 or so a week for four sessions which i think is quite good value really. We don't do anything else because we don't have the time, energy or money.

Jealousy is no good, it will eat you up inside.

Lavender - most of what my dd does is via school, either free or minimal cost. On a normal day she gets home at 3.45, if she does orchestra or other after-school activity she gets home an hour later, ie. 4.45. Assuming homework takes an average of 30 mins a night (occasionally more, often less) that still leaves an awful lot of time for mooching around, skateboarding and playing with friends/siblings or watching TV.

So she does 30mins practice per day plus 2 music lessons per week and 2 sports clubs? To me it sounds busy but not excessive. Personally I wouldn't want to do more but it doesn't sound crazy. DC1 does 3 sports clubs a week including swimming and we find this enough. She is 6 and needs to be in bed by 7.30pm.
Friends of mine also squeeze in play dates during the week and then complain their children are tired! It's not necessary to fill every minute of every day!

In my world there is no primary school orchestra. I would need to leave my job and yet somehow afford to run a second car to take dd to different activities every night. And afford them. Or have fantastic public transport to allow me to do same. Am I so unusual on MN. Does everyone else's primary school have an orchestra and free lessons. Does nobody else work? Some posters seem to have taken the opportunity to set out all the wonderful things they can afford in terms of money and time for their children. Yes I am jealous. And no it isn't eating me up. It just saddens me a bit.

No we will I've in the sticks and there are much less after school options. My impression is that there is much more available in london but you need a lot more money to do them. Our swimming class cost less than £4 but friends in north london have private swimming classes for their 4 year old (ha ha) and they are £25 each. It is a different world. We have school orchestra. I'm not bitter or sad. I rather not spend all my evenings in perpetual motion. It's good to have a few hobbies but you don't need a cv when aged 8.

Sorry I meant to say we have no school orchestra

No way is she doing too much, it's absolutely fine. The school sounds very dippy.

30 mins practice a day and homework on weekends is very undemanding.

OP, when the head swept your dd off into their office, what did they talk about - has your dd told you how the conversation went?

My 8 yo DD does the following weekly:

Brownies
swimming
Choir
Music lesson
15 mins daily music practice
2 hrs of dance
2 hrs homework

She's not tired or stressed and has plenty of time for playing out, cycling/skating/playing with toys.

Some of her friends do more.

She's only currently sitting exams for one of her activities, certainly I wouldn't want her under pressure.

Don't just dismiss the HT out of hand though - what did your DD actually say to her?

I certainly remember wanting to give up an activity when I was in Ori art school and being too frightened to tell my (very lovely and supportive) parents as I thought I'd be letting them down.

lavenderdoilly
yes my dd's state primary does have an orchestra. i pay £20 a term for it.
chess lessons are after school (in school)
flute lessons are in school
drama is walking distance from school (6 of us share it, so I only take once per term)
ballet is walking distance from home (and as they get older the classes get later, so i am now home from work to take her)
yes i do work. i do a lot of lift-sharing and helping each other out.
I (and nobody else i am sure) is trying to make you jealous or playing top trumps. We were just responding to the OP and demonstrating that her dd is not "overdoing it" or "doing too much" as the headteacher implied.

My dd is older though, as they get older the time required increases, they tend to drop things and focus on one or two things. DD is doing 4 hours of ballet a week at the moment (extra because of upcoming exam). It doesn't necessarily cost more. My older DD only does an orchestra and one drama lesson a week. I don't feel she is missing out - she's happy. She'd hate to be doing as much as dd2. She's never got into dance or a sport particularly.

Regarding your younger DC not being challenged in maths, have you tried talking to the teacher? That should always be the first step rather than going to the head. Sorry if you've already done that.

Sorry I've been offline for a while. This is so, helpful. Thank you. Really good to know the spectrum of activities that everyone is doing. I can see that it totally depends on the child.

dodobookends so she went into the HT's office and explained that she was upset about her music practice (she wanted to get a 'credit' this week, which is essentially just a star sticker that means you can go on to the next piece). She said she hadn't had enough time to practise this week (it's an odd thing for her to have said because she doesn't usually worry about doing enough practice ) so the HT said to her 'do you think you've got too much on? (I feel at that point she really started putting words into DD's mouth.) DD then said, 'yes maybe I have' and mentioned swimming (which she has given up and which wasn't a club just a half hour lesson each week) and the computer club she doesn't do! HT then gave her a lecture about making sure she had plenty of time to just stare at the wall, and called me to say she was concerned about DD's 'workload' and mentioned that she had spoken to the teacher about it (she made it clear that she didn't mean her school workload but what she was doing outside school). I actually feel quite cross about it, because when I suggested to DD that she give something else up she started crying and said she really didn't want to give anything up. So I asked her why she'd told HT she had too much on then, and she said she didn't know. As I say, I think HT just put words in her mouth. She was having a slightly teary morning and the HT escalated it. I know that if she'd left me with her she would have stopped crying within a minute and forgotten the whole thing.

She has loads of time to just do nothing. Eg she had her weekly individual music lesson after school yesterday, which was the last 'structured' thing she did. Since then: last night she played games with her sister the whole evening, this morning she played in her room on her own for an hour, drew a pretend tube map with made-up stations, we've all been out, the DC have played Guess Who, and now they're making pretend cinema tickets upstairs together. At some point today we'll do half an hour music practice and she'll do her homework either today or tomorrow but that really is it.

Just feel we've been unfairly judged by the HT and suspect it's linked to having made a complaint in the past (this is born out by some conversations with another parent at pick-up yesterday who has older DC at the school and feels that every time she's made a complaint about the school it's been deflected and some point has been made about their parenting).

Cassandra I spoke to the teacher earlier in the year (in a very gentle way) and she said she'd make sure that DD2 got interesting challenging maths to do but that hasn't happened. She asked me again this morning if I could talk to the teacher about it.

Cassandra also, just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting actually talking to the head about it anyway. I was going to talk again to the teacher. But now feel that if I do that I'll just feed into this idea that we are pushy parents.

OP, I think it's fine really. Good on you for insisting on regular music practice - it's the only way your DD will progress on the violin. The HT is an idiot for thinking this is pushy.

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. If you can fit in 30 minutes before school, it's ideal, really. The child is fresh and a lot can be achieved at this time.
2. If you can't fit in 30 minutes before school, what about splitting the session? You could do, say, scales and technical exercises in the morning (or one piece that they're working on). After school or before dinner, she might have another brief practice to work on other pieces or areas of technique.
3. Most importantly, chat to your DD about the practice - especially, as sometimes happens, it goes badly. We've all been there and sometimes you have a session where nothing seems to work. Reassure her that this happens to advanced players and even professionals. And then take a very small phrase - a bar or two perhaps, and repeat slowly until they are right. That way, even in a practice that was awful, they would still have achieved something positive. Good luck!

Thanks cingo that's really practical advice. Like the idea of dividing up practice

It's not actually a good idea to split practice in two - as soon as you've warmed up you stop. You need the continuity of the 30 mins to get on top of the technical and memory elements.

Your dd gets so little work from school that I don't really see that there's a problem doing practice after school - she doesn't have anything else to do.

The problem is a rather hysterical, slightly thick head teacher with a beef. And the fact that under pressure your dd said she was doing a couple of things that she wasn't. Who doesn't know a child will agree with an authority figure in that circumstance? The teacher should have known better.