Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

PTA being dictated to by Governors

113 replies

carolbfd74 · 13/12/2015 23:35

Just a thought: does anyone know how much the school Governors are allowed to dictate exactly HOW the PTA are allowed to fundraise for the school? e.g. events allowed, sale of alcohol, prizes offered etc.? Just curious how much the Governors can "interfere"? Especially if a lot of them don't have children at the school.....? curious as to answers. x

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

mrz · 14/12/2015 07:24

You need to apply to the local authority for a Temporary Events Notice to serve alcohol at a school event and of course the school governors (other parents and local residents can object) veto.

easterlywinds · 14/12/2015 07:31

If you're using school property during the course of the fundraising then you do need permission from the headteacher. Our Head attends all our meetings so that she can have some say as to whether she thinks events are suitable e.g. We have just had a fundraiser involving an adult only disco which we held off-site because of the copious amounts of alcohol consumed and raucous behaviour of the adults. However, the Xmas fair was held on school premises because adults tend to just have the 1 cup of mulled wine. Both events needed a temporary events notice for the serving of alcohol.
Have the governors given you reasons why they don't want you to hold certain events.

Snoopadoop · 14/12/2015 07:39

I am on the PTA. The Goveners have never interfered or made decisions that effect what we do to raise money. The headmistress from the outset though made it clear that no alcohol is to be consumed on school property, and all events are on school property and therefore there is no alcohol. Simple. At the Christmas performance we have tea, coffee, hot chocolate and mince pies.

Snoopadoop · 14/12/2015 07:42

I am curious, as Chair, as to whether I have any authority at all to say; hang on

No you don't BTW. No authority at all.

DamnCommandments · 14/12/2015 07:52

PrettyBright - that's interesting. We have a governor rota for attending PTA meetings at the PTA's request. They want communication channels open between the GB and the PTA. The governor is only there to learn, really, but does also feed back from GB meetings as much as is public/appropriate. Do you think we're making a mistake doing it this way?

Sorry to hijack!

PrettyBrightFireflies · 14/12/2015 08:03

damn it can be tricky for Governors if there is a disagreement between the school and the PTA if the Governors are involved with the PTA - the GB should remain impartial and not get involved in operational matters. In general, use of the school is up to the HT, but the GB should agree the school policies in relation to building use (lettings policy or similar)

The idea of a governor going along to a PTA on a rota basis as an observer can be valuable - as long as all the governors understand their role and responsibilities.

trinitybleu · 14/12/2015 08:16

Blimey, if we couldn't serve alcohol at our fundraising events we wouldn't raise half as much as we do! We have it at everything - discos, AGM, quizzes, and both fetes, plus tasting evenings and one of the raffle prizes is always a huge hamper of booze. Don't think anyone would come without it

mrz · 14/12/2015 08:22

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/serving-alcohol-to-parents-at-school-social-events-could-have-a-bad-influence-on-children-charity-9194921.html alternative point of view ?

DamnCommandments · 14/12/2015 08:26

Thanks PrettyBright! (And sorry again OP.) I'm pretty sure that none of us wants to get involved in the PTA! We're sort of there for moral support, really. By going along as observers we're trying to say 'we love what you do for the school and we see how much time and energy you put in'. OK - I feel better about it now you've gone into detail. Thanks again!

trinitybleu · 14/12/2015 08:28

If they weren't at our disco / fete, they'd be at the village pub with their parents or around one another's houses whilst the parents hit the prosecco ... They're not seeing any more alcohol than they would normally.

mrz · 14/12/2015 08:37

I agree but the argument is that the school is promoting alcohol which they presumably aren't doing in the local pub.

PrettyBrightFireflies · 14/12/2015 08:50

There is an attitude amongst some PTAs (not saying it's the case with yours, OP) that the school/HT/GB should be grateful to the PTA for all the funds they raise and so should accommodate the PTA as much as possible.

While it's true that PTAs are an important part of the school community, the reality is that the funds they raise are not strategically significant - they can't be "relied upon" to deliver core provision - the PTA pays for the added extras which aren't really the GB responsibility - that is delegated to the HT.

Often, when the cost of overtime for building management staff, cleaners etc are factored in, the PTA events cost the school as much as the event raises. And that doesn't include time spent by the HT smoothing ruffled feathers from 'PTA playground politics'.

And don't forget, most school buildings are owned by the local authority who often have their own rules about use of the buildings which the school have to follow. Bitching to the HT about wanting to serve alcohol when the LA says it's not allowed in any of their schools is a waste of the HT time.

I'm not saying PTAs are a bad thing, but they can create additional work for the school despite their good intentions.

ReggaeShark · 14/12/2015 08:53

No it's not your call. Things like that are up to the HT/GB. If there's an issue with alcohol, who do you think will have to pick up the pieces? Not the PTA, that's for sure.

DamnCommandments · 14/12/2015 08:57

On the flip side, PrettyBright, our PTA really helps us lever extra money out of the local authority because we can bring PTA money to the table and ask for it to be 'matched'. In the past it has helped bump us up the priority list e.g. for playground resurfacing. We all know it's not 'free' money, but in our LA it seems to be an important part of playing the funding game.

With my political hat on, I think it's ridiculous that it works that way. Why should a school with a relatively wealthy and well-organised parent body get their playground resurfaced before one down the road where the parents have many fewer resources? Bah.

PrettyBrightFireflies · 14/12/2015 08:59

damn sounds like you're playing the system very well - you're right, it shouldn't be like that, but as it is, it can only be a good thing for the DCs if the GB know how to use it to best advantage!

GinIsTheBestChristmasSpirit · 14/12/2015 10:15

For my kids school (faith school) the pta and governors together decide on a project and target for the year. Pta run events past the governors for approval but I've not known any be blocked. School promote events via posters/leaflets etc. We also have a big target board that states what pta yearly target is, what it is for and roughly how close we are (it's a %age scale they move through the year) which is next to a notice board pat have exclusive use of.

As a faith school they say no events involving alcohol. Some other faith schools also say no gambling (unless everyone wins tombola type games) but ours love a bit of bingo

GinIsTheBestChristmasSpirit · 14/12/2015 10:25

To clarify governors aren't involved in pta on a day to day basis just pta chair feeds them event ideas for approval. It seems to work.

We've not had any major issues and this year with a new uber enthusiastic head and a great yearly project we have already hit 60% of a larger than usual target.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 14/12/2015 10:29

Oh this has made me laugh!

A PTA Chair wondering if she has authority to override the GB.

Whoever said PTAs have an inflated opinion of themselves?

You see enough threads on here complaining that PTA Chairs try to control the HTs - now they're setting their sights on the GBs!

WhoKn0wsWhereTheMistletoes · 14/12/2015 11:09

We only have limited alcohol at PTA events, once a year at an adult only quiz night (BYO) and a beer/Pimms stall at the summer fair which is an evening event. Never during daytime, discos or Christmas events. We have no problems getting people to participate without it, I think it's a good balance.

OddBoots · 14/12/2015 11:10

PrettyBrightFireflies "And don't forget, most school buildings are owned by the local authority who often have their own rules about use of the buildings which the school have to follow."

Agreed, and more problematically more and more schools are tied into PFI related Facility Management contracts that charge a high and non-negotiable rates for out of hours opening.

Anotherusername1 · 14/12/2015 11:26

I don't think my sons' school governors ever got involved in PTA events, although there was a beer tent at school fairs which they had to approve. I don't think they ever had to approve anything else though.

Generally governors are only involved when the head wants to stop something and want to be able to "blame" the governors ;)

As far as I know the schools have to apply to the PTA for funds for certain projects, the PTA doesn't just hand over the cash. The PTA is for both an infant school and a junior school.

PrettyBrightFireflies · 14/12/2015 12:00

Generally governors are only involved when the head wants to stop something and want to be able to "blame" the governors

A risky strategy for any HT - who is ultimately accountable to the GB for all their decisions.

bojorojo · 14/12/2015 12:14

The best solution is for either the Head or a Deputy to be the liaison between the school and the PTA. The Governors should not go to meetings and where a parent governor was on the PTA committee of my DDs school it led to problems as he reported conversations back to the Governors. A bit like a spy! At the state schools I have been involved with, we did serve alcohol . Mulled wine for example. However if the school did not want alcohol served and this was their Lettings policy, then the PTA has to follow it. Obviously the school would not be let out for weddings or any other private events that involve alcohol . The Head has to day to day management of the policy, not the Governors. That is why a member of SLT should attend meetings of the PTA. To advise and avoid conflict.

TeenAndTween · 14/12/2015 20:58

I think that if the governors have made a policy decision that alcohol is not compatible with the ethos /demographic / whatever of the school then the PTA has to live with it.

I could see lots of reasons in favour of this

not wishing to 'normalise' alcohol to (primary?) children
significant numbers of a teetotal religion
problems in behaviour of adults due to alcohol

Cedar03 · 15/12/2015 11:46

Our PTA wanted to do a beer tent at the last summer fair. It was vetoed by the HT on the basis that some parents at his previous school got very drunk and behaved badly.

We are allowed to do a bottle tombola though and give away alcohol as prizes.

As others have said, you are using the school's premises and it is up to them what they are willing to accept or not. Church halls and other venues that you can hire will have their own policies of what they consider acceptable or not. It's not just schools who may not want alcohol sold.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5