How long is your school run for child in Year 3 / 4 / 5 / 6?

[nightsky010]

Im very interested to find out how long and simple or complicated other people's school runs are for DC in Years 3-6??

The background is that I'm choosing a school for a Year 3 DC and have a choice between:

• An amazing school 55 mins away (short walk to train, 15 min train then short taxi).

• A school I'm not very keen on which is 35-40 mins away (v short walk, 10-15 mins rush hour tube, then walk of 0.65 miles).

• A brilliant school at which DC could do a mix of boarding and staying with Grandparents / me at Grandparents house, which would mean a 2hr journey to and from London every Friday and Sunday (or occasionally Monday morning if I'm brave enough!!).

I know these sound like ridiculous choices, but due to SEN, job locations and budget these are our only options!

Please tell me YOUR journey times and methods so I can judge how crazy I am being!?

Y5 and Y1 DCs - 15 minute walk. Y7 DC 10 minute walk. When we chose where to live, a short walk to school was one of my red lines.

I could equally reply with "you would actually consider sending your DC to a day school instead of a boarding school?"

Many people who are pro boarding school in general would not advocate it from the age of 7 . Which I think was Brenda's point .

I grew up outside the M25 for the first 18 years of my life, I know exactly what it's like! Also, we have lived outside of the M25 as a family and HATED it

This made me LOL at your having lived everywhere in the world outside the M25 and having HATED it all .

Perhaps having average qualifications from a better-known school is better than having average qualifications from an average school?

I think you'll find that it's completely the opposite . Universities will favour a child with average qualifications from a poor school over a child with the same qualifications from a public school or even a grammar school.

Yes, I think having a somewhat fixed idea is normal - many people would never consider anything but the local state, even if they could afford it."

That's not been my experience . One of my children is in the last year of his current school and all the conversation between parents is about the options for next year . 4/ 22 families have moved house to get into a better school and others are thinking about it . Everyone is discussing applications and their options , points systems, strategies , travel, how it would affect siblings etc . Most people I know agonise about the decision and worry about doing the best for their child .

FWIW I have a child who sounds just like Who Knows' child and yours and I agree with every word she said. I still think you have a fixed " life plan " for your child and are determined to force him into it until he proves to you that it's not right by failing spectacularly .

Rather than starting with a your child - a clear assessment of his current and future needs ( as much as you can tell ) and good information about all the options available to you , now and in the future .

TBH, I don't know what to make of your conclusion that sending a sensitive child with HFA and poor social skills and with average attainment to a mainstream boarding school at 7 is a good plan .

Sorry x posted with Brenda. Who I see is perfectly capable of explaining her own point without my assistance

BrendaFlange

You're very lucky that your state options were so good I'm currently investigating mine, so I'll see what they look like. I agree at the value added being more relevant than the SAT results.

Yes, boarding is not a natural solution, however it is only 2 non consecutive nights per week, so not really 'proper' boarding.

Im0gen

We want to live

Could someone assist with a State schools admissions question?

I think I'm just being dumb, but I believe I'm meant to be able to view a table detailing school places available / waiting lists for in-year applications, but I can't find it anywhere. surely there must be one for people trying to apply now for eg. April 2016?

Ideally Barnet or Camden, but even seeing an in year list for Islington or Haringay could be handy.

I'm just saying that some people actually change their jobs to meet their children's needs. Mumsnet is full of people who have done that - it's not unusual .

And it's possible to learn to drive .

And it's possible to live outside a big city.

And there are other cities in the UK and indeed in the world, than London .

I'm not saying that you should do all or any of these things . Just that they are possible .

You set all these multiple constraints , then say " oh dear there's not much choice , my child will have to spend 3 hours a day commuting or board " .

I think you need to be honest with yourself and admit that it's not that you are unable to change these things, it's just that you are unwilling to alter your own lifestyle in any way to meet your child's needs .

I find it interesting that your DH is not prepared to consider a one hour commute , yet you are proposing a much longer one for your seven year old.

You say that you are " not very keen on state schools " . Really ? All of them in the entire country ??? You've checked them all out and found them lacking ? You might as well say you are not keen on West Indians or squash players.

I'm sorry, I don't want to turn this into a personal attack . I just wanted to suggest that you think a little more widely about your options , but I can see that your mind is completely set .

I hope your little boy is happy wherever you choose to send him .

Im0gen

RTT! It's not a 3 hour journey for DC each day, it would be max 55 mins each way.

As for giving my son a 3 hour commute and DH not being willing to do more than 1 hour, that's rubbish. As I've said several times before, the main reason DH doesn't want to do more than an hour of commuting is that it would prevent him from seeing DC Monday to Friday because he would not be home in time and he doesn't want to be a 'weekend dad'.

you are unwilling to alter your own lifestyle in any way to meet your child's needs. Oh really? Like 3 years ago when we moved 50 miles to a worse property so that DC had the option of better schools? You might think that we would have a better life if we moved elsewhere, DH had a low paying job and DC went to the local state school, but I disagree.

You're right, I shouldn't rule out all state schools. More specifically, the main things I do not want are to be unable to get the SEN help DS needs because I can't get someone to specify it in his statement, large classes (I could see anything over 20 ish being less than ideal for him) a less structured environment than an average Prep (structure works well with his ASD mentality), shorter school days than the average Prep (DS bounces off the walls if he doesn't do long days filled with sports. Not bad enough for ADHD diagnosis though, apparently). Plus there are more minor things such lack of languages in some Primaries for example. Oh, and we are not religious so I assume that would rule out a church schools.

Wouldn't you have thought the above list would rule out virtually all Primaries? (Genuine question as it's ruled out the ones I've looked at so far.)

I find it interesting that your DH is not prepared to consider a one hour commute , yet you are proposing a much longer one for your seven year old.

This! To be fair - your option 1 makes your DS's commute only five minutes longer each way than your DH's but still I find it very odd that you consider it even remotely appropriate for your 7 year old to have a longer commute than your grown man of a husband!!!!!!

Also, in what way does Option 3 make any sense with what your saying? Surely then your DH only sees your DS on Saturday and some of Sunday anyway???? If you all moved to that location your DS could have an easier commute and your DH would still see him more than if he were boarding Monday to Friday. As others have said perhaps it is you and your husband who need to re-consider - perhaps both of you could cut back your hours if you move, learn to drive and use state schools?? IME the most important factor for children at primary age is the influence from home, therefore you're totally wrecking that before you even start in most of your options as your DC won't have significant exposure to you at home. Children need to be at home with loving parents to experience good family relationships and to have the support to develop their academic learning as well as extra-curricular interests and a social life.

From your posts your DS would benefit far more from a local community experience to benefit his additional social needs - easier to facilitate if you actually live in the community where his school is and are at home from work to help him develop friendships at home.

And I am sure your fear of large class sizes comes from having no experience of them but my DD is just coming to the end of primary school and has been in state school throughout (2 different ones of varying "quality"), with classes of 30 plus. She got one of the highest marks in 11+ in her year, does multiple extra curriculur activities, excels at music and many sports. Thank god she doesn't also have 2 hours travel to contend with as it would seriously eat into her available time to enjoy her activities and social time with her friends. I fail to see how anyone would think there is an issue with her schooling when looking at her CV in ten/twelve years. I think you really need to think a bit outside the box!!!!

Just read your last post
the main things I do not want are to be unable to get the SEN help DS needs because I can't get someone to specify it in his statement, large classes (I could see anything over 20 ish being less than ideal for him) a less structured environment than an average Prep (structure works well with his ASD mentality), shorter school days than the average Prep (DS bounces off the walls if he doesn't do long days filled with sports. Not bad enough for ADHD diagnosis though, apparently). Plus there are more minor things such lack of languages in some Primaries for example. Oh, and we are not religious so I assume that would rule out a church schools.

• Most state schools are responsive to a child's need for additional support as they find that well supported children are less disruptive to the rest of their peers. Also the support will be free - not like private schools where you will likely need to pay for it.
• In London many will have classes of 30 but the way in which teachers work means that most children (including many many with SEN) don't find it problematic. Many lovely village state schools (outside the M25 so totally outside of your son's future) have much smaller class sizes.
• By Year 3 most schools are very structured: gone are the years of early years foundation stage (pre-school and reception years) where the learning is child-centred.
• Shorter school days allow plenty of time for activities outside of school, sports opportunities within your community will be plentiful.
• Again language is something you could easily arrange for your child to do outside of school.

But this is your problem with only going by your prior experience, I think you see it as successful to earn a high salary to pay for your child to attend a private school and therefore delegate his care and education. I see the opposite in that I have built a career which is not highly paying but allows me flexibility to take as much time as I need to educate and take care of my DC as much as I want to / they need. I really enjoy taking them to their activities and having their friends over to play, helping them with reading & spelling at home, etc: it really helps me get to know them and develop that relationship which I hope will set them up to develop their own positive family relationships, and involvement in their own childrens' lives, in future. We're also lucky as my DH (through personality not education) is very successful and earns a high salary without being limited to a particular geographical area so he works fairly short hours and is highly involved in the childrens' lives but also we have choices to let them pursue any interests they wish - and send them to private school if appropriate (so far we've decided not to do so).

More specifically, the main things I do not want are to be unable to get the SEN help DS needs because I can't get someone to specify it in his statement

Does your ds already have a statement/ehcp then?

Ok, we found that from Year 2 onwards things were a lot more structured and disciplined in state school than in years 1 and R, with another shift in year 4. Large class sizes yes, but work carried out in small groups differentiated by ability. Sports - some schools do more than others, but in our town (rural market town, pop. 20,000) there is a club for just about every sport imaginable. DS has over the years done Beavers/ Cubs/Scouts, tennis, swimming, hockey, football, trampolining, cricket, all within a mile or so of home, always with at least a classmate or two and sharing lifts/walking with them. Like MrsPlum I have structured my career to facilitate all this and it is hugely beneficial to my family (I have a DD as well). My hours are shorter but I still work in my original, professional career. It has meant that DS, dedpite his social skills deficits still has a structure of activities based near home and with his former classmates, he is welcome in their homes and them in ours, there is a group of known adults in our community who will look out for him as he grows independent and is out on his own.

Our primary school is not a church one, and it has a permanent part time language teacher, French is taught from year R. The SEN provision was excellent. And all this within 1/4 mile of the house we bought 15 years ago without a thought to schools. I count myself as very lucky, it might not be the same for you but what I am saying is don't discount what's under your nose just because it's state not prep.

Mine now have a 20/30 minute journey to and from school each day, but that's only because we moved last year but kept them at their existing school. Plus I work near their school so am driving more or less in that direction anyway (it's a 2 minute detour).

If choosing a new school for them I wouldn't choose one so far, it affects a lot. For example play dates are more complicated now, after school events are a pita (particularly if only one of the children is involved), the oldest doesn't get to walk to school with her friends... Oh and they don't really have friends in our local area.

They're only little things but mean a lot to the children (and I sometimes spend a lot of time driving to and fro).

We are fortunate to live near some of the best school in the country ( state and private ) and can afford to send them where we want .

We have chosen to send our 9yo, who sounds a lot like yours , to the village primary . It's a 7 minute drive away . He gets excellent support for his SN , he's in a class of 23, the day is very structured and they have been doing French for the last three years . The school is non denominational .

The one thing it doesn't have is excellent sports facilities , which is fine for us as he's not at all sporty However , these are all available nearby and his classmates play rugby, football , karate , do athletics and swim in local teams / clubs.

He really benefits from being part of a community with activities like Cubs , local fairs, events and he goes on play dates every week .

Like other parents here , I have organised my work around my children , to allow them to do many out of school activities . One plays sport at a national level, another two are very musical .

They are all reasonably bright kids and should be able to get into a Russell group university without being hothoused and tutored to within an inch of their lives . We would rather they had a happy childhood and simply applied themselves a bit at A level stage .

i cannot understand the obsession with Oxbridge that I see on MN. It's completely irrational . Our child who went to Oxford doesn't have a better career than any of the others and didn't have much fun at uni - it wasn't the right place for her. I'm astounded at the poster here confidently asserting that it's the ONLY OPTION for their two year old . Bonkers

We only did the walking for about 2 years, DS1 aged 4-6 walking and the younger 2 in the double buggy. DS2 has Ehlers Danlos syndrome and when he moved from a buggy to a wheelchair we started taking the bus. I tried it once with 4 year old DS2 in the wheelchair and 1 year old DS2 in the sling but I felt like my arms were going to fall off! DS1 did PE twice a week in school but nothing outside school.

MrsPlum2015

Read what I said directly above your last post about the commute!

You're right, school 3 would mean him not seeing DH during the week, which is not ideal, however the school are very good with SEN which I think could make up for that.

I'm bemused that you think it's appropriate to comment on someone elses parenting choices when you have no idea how I parent!

I think you see it as successful to earn a high salary to pay for your child to attend a private school and I see the opposite in that I have built a career which is not highly paying but allows me flexibility to take as much time as I need You don't know what you're talking about. I don't earn a high salary and I only work 15t hours a week. Stop making incorrect assumptions.

and therefore delegate his care and education. What are you talking about!? Really!? I look after my son. He doesn't get sent to a childminder / nanny and doesn't use the before / after school club. I do homework, read to him, make his dinner, play games, put him to bed etc. How is paying for a good school delegating his education and using the local state is not? If he boarded 2 nights a week it wouldn't be because I was delegating his education, it would be because I thought it was the best option.

Regarding state provision, I'm not very reassured.....

I'd still worry a to being in a situation where they were not willing to offer support and there was nothing I could do.

You may think it's not problematic having 30 kids in a class, but I don't think it's going to be better than having 15! (Or as DS did in Reception, 12/13 with a teacher and 2.5 TAs!). We are not moving to a random village just because it might have a Primary with fewer than 30 children. That would be horrible for the whole family. End of!

I will keep an open mind on the structure / order / discipline issue. I'll try and find some videos online of good state Primaries to watch, or maybe even visit one.

Regarding school activities and extra curricular, I don't think I could replicate outside of school those offered by some of the schools I'm considering. School 3 for example offers 80+ activities in Prep (and about 20 in Pre-Prep). However the extra curricular and sports are not a deal breaker for me and I don't think having such a massive range is essential, just nice to have.

Yes, I could take him to extra language lessons out of school, but I would feel like I was having to make up for a shortcoming of the school.

WombatStew

No, DS doesn't have a statement. I've never applied for one as I don't think he would get one and because it's not been necessary at the current school.

What I worry about is that a State school may refuse to offer help on the grounds that either he does not have a statement, or (if I'd did apply for one) because I could not get everything I wanted specified in the Statement.

WhoKnowsWhereTheatimeGoes

Your school sounds good. Nice that you have lots of structure, many activities to do locally and a community for DCs. Sounds like you were very lucky that the school happened to be so good and had places.

Very good that you could just switch to shorter hours in your original career. Not possible for all of us though (though I do work 15hrs a week, but not very well paid).

Troika

Yeah, being a bit further away does sound like a PITA!

"or maybe even visit one."

You do how silly that sounds?

On the 'offering support for SEN'. The way it works in the schools I have worked in - all state - is that, for a child who arrives without a statement [ie almost all of them] the school looks at your child as a whole - how they are in class in all subjects, any barriers to learning, any assessments that have been done internally or externally, any expert reports. They then decide on the provision for your child. This can be very low-level - ie that your child may sit at a table which has adult support for every lesson in a specific subject. Or it could be higher level - your child receives individual or small group interventions in one or more areas, with a teacher or TA, anything from once a week to once a day. Or it could be universal - your child has an allocated TA who supports them in all areas (this is normally only when a statement-equivalent is in place, but can often be done in advance of the paperwork where a child is clearly in need ).

All of this is documented, and anything above the 'very low level' level communicated with parents.

I suppose it would be different from what you have experienced before is that it is 'reactive to the child's needs' not 'provided because it is paid for' - so for example you can't say 'I want a weekly lesson with the SENCo'; instead the school will specify 'X will have 3x weekly interventions, focusing on reading comprehensions, in a small group. Entry point x, target for end of this series of interventions y' for e.g. a term or a half term. We work on half term blocks for review of every intervention, to ensure that they are effective and achieving their objectives.

You also don't get to pay for specialists such as SALT to deliver in-school sessions - some schools may buy in SALT time, which is then allocated free to pupils according to need. In other areas, SALT is arranged and delivered outside school premises, either privately or as part of NHS 'free at the point of need' delivery.

It is, I agree, a different philosophy from a private school one - it is 'support according to need' (sometimes imperfectly, due to resource constraints - schools would always LIKE to deliver much more than they CAN, but that is perhaps the nature of teaching) rather than 'direct purchase of a service'. I can see from the rigidity of your general thinking that you would find difference in philosophy potentially very uncomfortable.

Im0gen

Fantastic that he gets good support for his SEN at his school, and that you have French. A class of 23 doesn't sound huge.

I'm not totally sure what your Oxbridge comment relates to? I hope you don't think I'm trying to send my DS to Oxbridge? I very much doubt he is the right material. I do however think it can be a massive advantage in employment (in certain jobs). certainly Oxbridge friends told me it was of huge help when trying to break in to their careers. What thread about a parent wanting Oxbridge for her 2 year old? (I did read one recently about a mum asking about schools to get her Foetus in to Oxbridge, is that the one you mean?)

Elliejjtiny
I can understand why you didn't carry on walking!

200 yards - and walked.

On French - every school is required by the National Curriculum to provide some MFL teaching in KS2 (ie Y3 upwards). The schools I have taught in and my DCs attended have a specialist delivering a lesson each week, often as part of the cover for teachers' non-contact (PPA) time.

However, there are other models - a few schools still have more limited 'occasional' MFL provision, but my observation is that is now rare.

Tbh, at that level and frequency it is definitely 'familiarisation' rather than 'serious language acquisition', but the local secondary has just had to re-write the KS3 syllabus because pupils are arriving there so much more able in MFL...

SALT access, btw, is usually via the NHS, iof necessary prompted by referral by a school - I know this isn't your part of London

www.lewishamandgreenwich.nhs.uk/speech-and-language-therapy

but a google for your local NHS SLT team may help. Equally your DS's current SALT may well know how provision would be oprganised if he transferred to a state school.