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How long is your school run for child in Year 3 / 4 / 5 / 6?

122 replies

nightsky010 · 05/11/2015 09:54

Im very interested to find out how long and simple or complicated other people's school runs are for DC in Years 3-6??

The background is that I'm choosing a school for a Year 3 DC and have a choice between:

  • An amazing school 55 mins away (short walk to train, 15 min train then short taxi).
  • A school I'm not very keen on which is 35-40 mins away (v short walk, 10-15 mins rush hour tube, then walk of 0.65 miles).
  • A brilliant school at which DC could do a mix of boarding and staying with Grandparents / me at Grandparents house, which would mean a 2hr journey to and from London every Friday and Sunday (or occasionally Monday morning if I'm brave enough!!).

I know these sound like ridiculous choices, but due to SEN, job locations and budget these are our only options!

Please tell me YOUR journey times and methods so I can judge how crazy I am being!?

OP posts:
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Doublethecuddles · 09/11/2015 09:19

We are 5 minutes by school bus. We love in catchment but 2 miles away so get a school bus.
OP would your child have the energy or time to go to the local Cubs, or any other club? The benefit of groups likes Cubs is enormous to a lot of children, many find it much easier to be part of as they are not sport based. Our local pack has 2 children with SEN.
Would your child have time to be part of the local community? Would he have any local friends to play with in the holidays and at weekends? If he went to the school by train, where would the other children come from? Would you be travelling for miles at weekends to birthday parties?
You only get 1 childhood

nightsky010 · 09/11/2015 19:45

Im0gen
Moving elsewhere is not an option. DH has to work in the City or Canary Wharf so he can earn enough to pay the school fees etc. The jobs elsewhere pay 30%+ less. That limits us to within an hour of the city (he wants to be home in time to see DS, which I agree is best for DS). Also, we can't drive so would need to live right by a station. That really means we have to be within the M25, and unfortunatly there aren't many schools to choose from once I rule out all the Preps wanting very competitive 7+, and all those that only go up to 11.

We are currently looking at getting a nanny to drive him so he does not have to do the train and taxi journey.

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nightsky010 · 09/11/2015 19:54

Doublethecuddles
He would be doing an 'after school' activity every day as they do these after lunch. There is also Cubs once a week, after which DSs board at the school for the night. The school is largely a boarding school, so I imagine most pupils will come from not just the local area but also various bits of London, all over the country and abroad. So no, there won't be as much of a local community or local friends, but I think some of that is inevitable with a boarding school. I have no idea how Birthday parties would work. I will ask.

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nightsky010 · 09/11/2015 20:12

Brendaflange
I thought you could do in-year admissions and providing they had a place you could get it regardless of location, providing there is nobody closer? We are not religious, so no advantage there.

State will remain a last option for us - having to work out what to do for Years 7&8 after the end of Primary but before the start of his Senior (which I anticipate being a Public school) will be a pain, and I have massive reservations about having classes of 30+, even with TAs. DS's mainstream pre prep Reception class was 12/13 with a teacher and 2.5TAs! And there's tons of sport and extra curricular which he loves, which I think is more common in private. Also, I've heard a lot of people say the discipline at state schools is generally poorer, though granted I don't have any first hand experience of this so I stand to be corrected.

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BrendaFlange · 09/11/2015 21:41

You would actually consider sending a 7 year old to Boarding school rather than even look at a state school?

I can'[t speak for all state schools obviously, but discipline in DS's state primary was brilliant, and the school had a lovely caring atmosphere and family feel, and very good results, too. Just an ordinary primary.

Yes, you can get in-year admissions if there is a place and no-one ahead on the waiting list, and you can go on as many waiting lists as you like.

SeasonalVag · 09/11/2015 21:51

What's wrong with a state school?

I lived 12 miles from my school and I felt really frustrated....that length of journey is tiring and stressful plus their mates will probably live far away from you all. your kids will be on some sort of a treadmill for the rest of their lives, If you can let them have a childhood that's not governed by schedules more than necessary. I drive my kids 5 miles now and we are planning to move closer.

teacherwith2kids · 09/11/2015 21:51

Just a thought - you are reminding me increasingly of a relative of my DH's.

They had life for their DCs fully mapped out - which schools, at which ages, target universities etc - pretty much pre-birth. And as each step has become 'not possible in the original form', rather than actually evaluating whether that changed the whole plan, they have just 'watered down' the original plan.

So a bit like you - plan A was academic pre-prep, scholarship to prep that pretty much guaranteed admission to preferred secondary.

However, child they actually has doesn't fit that mould, and finances have become tighter. So they have done less academic pre-prep (one of those private schools that adds NOTHING over the local primary), failed entrance exam to preferred prep school so had to trek miles to a different one, won't get into preferred secondary so now trying for one of the same type but less academic. Incredibly rigid thinking - it has to be 'a school process like this, with transitions at these ages'.

They live in the catchment for some of the best non-selective state schools in the area - in fact in that area of the country. But because they have decided 'our child's education will look like this', they have never actually looked at the state alternative ... despite the fact that every single piece of evidence points to the fact that their 'watered down' versions of their original plan are FAR worse educationally.

SeasonalVag · 09/11/2015 21:55

Oh and I went to private and state schools and there are not huge differences between discipline, aspiration etc. Maybe I was just lucky but I do think that the negative elements of both educational styles are pretty hyped up. Yes, more resources but you can pay for private extra curricula activities you know?

Wigeon · 09/11/2015 21:58

Have you considered actually visiting some state schools where you'd be likely to get a place, before dismissing them? And asking for a meeting with the SENCO, where you could discuss likely provision for your DS? It sounds like your impressions of state schools are based on little actual knowledge, and general hearsay. Behaviour in my DD's school (Y3) seems good. Behaviour in the (semi selective) secondary state school my DH teaches in is very good. Academic standards there are very good, almost comparable with some of the local private schools.

Not only would they be free, but it might just be possible that they are a better option, both in terms of the far reduced commute, and the actual provision possibly suiting your DS better.

In terms of class size, have you looked at some of the evidence about the link between class size and attainment? It's not a clear cut as you might think, see eg www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/183364/DFE-RR169.pdf

FWIW, based on hearsay and second hand knowledge, I hear that private schools are often not very good at managing children with SEN, if they even admit them in the first place...!

SeasonalVag · 09/11/2015 22:02

It's ridiculous to be so fixated on private education... I know people like that too.. And they manage to ignore the point that education is not just about getting into a red brick uni.... It's not, exclusively.... But they'll then send their kids on gap years to do their but..... Never once stepping outside the umc bubble.

Wigeon · 09/11/2015 22:03

(I should add that I went to a private school where I was perfectly happy and did well, so I don't have any inate prejudice against or hated of private).

Im0gen · 09/11/2015 22:16

You do realise that your husband doesn't have to earn so much if you don't have school fees and a nanny ? And that it's possible to learn to drive - lots of people do it.

There is life outside the M25 you know .

I'm amazed that you have already decided that a mainstream public school , possibly even boarding , is the best place for your seven year old with SEN.

I agree with the posters who say you are very fixed in your thinking and trying to fit your child into the life plan you have already determined for him, rather than looking at how best to meet his needs .

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeG0es · 09/11/2015 22:37

Ok, a bitmore about the SENs.

I've never been called to the school to collect / comfort, he functions very well in a mainstream environment, average or just above average academically, loves school, very well behaved, no real sensory issues, has never had a meltdown at school. Problems that show at school are mostly not relating to other kids or knowing how to make friends / have conversations about other people's interests, plus finding story writing and comprehension difficult and some issues concentrating

This is an exact description of my DS when he was in Year 2. The "problem" issues you describe are EXACTLY the sort of things that got to be more and more of an issue as he got older. Other kids start growing up, playing less, chatting more, interacting in a more adult manner, having group conversations much as adults do. DS gives the impression hus conversation skills are fine when he's one to one with an adult, or a sibling. Put him in a group with boys his age and he is totally unable to keep up with the speed of the conversation, the dynamics of taking turns to speak, how one subject leads to another, he doesn't get the social niceties of showing an interest in something he's not interested in himself. His primary school friends were kind and tolerated him, but he was gradually getting isolated from his peer group. Living close to school meant he still had opportunities to socialise, going to Cubs etc with schoolmates, their parents and I have always done ad-hoc childcare for one another too, also we bump into them at the park etc.

As for the writing, comprehension etc, that all got worse too. As they get older the instructions and texts they are given by the teacher is in longer and longer chunks, maths problems writren out as words etc, all harder and harder to follow, frustration grows. My DS started struggling in Year 3, the school (state) did put significant support in place for him, with me leaning on them but it wasn't enough and DS, who is of above average intelligence would have been heading for the bottom sets at secondary school and social isolation. This is why I applied for and got his statement (it wasn't easy but that's another story).

The point of all this is that I thank my lucky stars he was at the local state primary not a private school miles away. I was able to be closely involved in his school and social life, was able to play an active role in ensuring he got the help he needed as he went through. The big problem for private schools and SEN provision is the cost, the support a child like my DS needs is significant and in the state sector there is a statutory process to obtain this support and its funding (although you might have to fight for it). In the private sector the money has to come from somewhere too and the options are to make parents pay for it on top of fees, to not take a child requiring this level of support in the first place or to manage them out once academic or behavioural issues start to manifest themselves. I am not expert on private schools but have a close circle of friends with DCs the same age as mine in private schools who are all in agreement with me that their schools would not provide anything like the support we have had from our state primary, also the academic and social skill abilities of the peer groups are higher so the gap is wider.

I would implore you to consider state schools. I take on board the Yr 7/8 gap problem, but there are ways round that when the time comes and public school may not prove best for him anyway. I would also look seriously for independent special schools. I'm not in your area and my DS's school doesn't start till older but there are others out there.

Thankgoditsover · 10/11/2015 10:07

The y7/8 thing really isn't a problem. All the London day schools have a significant entry for 11+ with some (e.g. Highgate) phasing out the 13+ altogether. Any mixed school is going to have its main entry at 11.

If you do want a school that begins at 13, then there are loads and loads of empty spaces for y7 and 8 in prep schools because they lose so many kids wanting to go off to these great day schools at 11. I know of various boys who didn't get the state secondary they wanted and it was so easy to find a prep school gagging for their fees for y7.

I also don't understand your reasoning that if your son lacks personal/social skills, then they need an 'impressive' school on their CV. I really don't think any employer gives a toss whether a child goes to good local secondary or second-tier public school by the time they're in their 20s.

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 10/11/2015 10:20

How will your DS handle boarding in light of their SEN? Just a genuine question, apologies if you have already answered.

You seem to have a fixed idea of the education you would like him to have (and I don't see any problem with this - it isn't a criticism), so for other posters to answer this question for you is not helpful - most people will use state school and their journeys will naturally be much shorter.

I feel that you should really contemplate each option and how that would impact on your life if you are the one making the regular journey. Do you work as well? As fitting in commuting times will be difficult with work as well.

I have a child with considerable difficulties and although I live in an area with good grammar schools, I didn't want my child under that pressure in light of his difficulties so my needs were very different to other parents - we considered the time the school started - how close the school was and how the school would manage with my child. My child is happy and learning, but most of all the school fits in with our needs, and we try to fit in with theirs. My child's education is important but oddly, that need wasn't at the top of our list when we were looking, given the other considerations we needed to make to accommodate an easier life for our child.

It isn't easy but do pick the option that you think works best with your family and how any decision will affect you and your child. Good luck!

nightsky010 · 10/11/2015 22:08

Teacherwith2kids

Interesting observation. You're correct up to the point where the watered down plan ends up being worse than a totally different alternative.

I do absolutely like to plan, probably because I cocked up DS Nursery due to not planning very well because I was naive enough to think that one could get a Nursery place somewhere decent at fairly short notice in London! It turned out to be a disastrous choice (the kind of Daycare Nursery which just does crowd control and which is staffed by students from the local college!). DS struggled so much and I decided a much more structured environment would be better, so I chose a Pre-Prep and he really thrived there. Hence I would have to have a very good reason to take him out of a system which is currently working for him and put him in to an unknown one (State)....

I think essentially my 'grand plan' is to choose the best option for him at every stage. So if I think a Prep can meet his needs then I will look for the best Prep (and by 'best' I do not mean most academic, I mean the one which suits him best). If on the other hand I decide for whatever reason that a state school would suit him best then I will look for the best State school.

I really don't think I'm so rigid that I would push my child down a path to which he wasn't suited (for example, I was able to accept that he was not going to be a good 7+ candidate for an academic Prep, though I had previously hoped he might be, so I Chose not to enter him for any 7+ in the end.) I just have yet to see any evidence that the current options are the wrong ones for him (though I do conceeed that finding a school with reasonable transport options is an issue).

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teacherwith2kids · 10/11/2015 22:20

The thing is, you are looking for 'the best Prep', and that's what I mean by rigidity of thinking.

What I don't understand is why you aren't looking for the best school - which MIGHT be a Prep, but you don't know that, because you haven't looked at the alternatives at all. And when I mean 'best', I mean 'best' in an all-round sense, taking your DS's whole experience of 'school termtime' into account - travel, homework, home life, friends, clubs, play.

SummerNights1986 · 10/11/2015 22:33

Sending your dc to a school you don't like with a 1 hour 20 minute round commute twice a day.

Sending him to a school you like but with a nearly 2 hour round commute.

Sending your seven year old to boarding school.

I struggle to understand your thinking op if you truly think these are the best options you have...they all sound like hell on a stick to me.

nightsky010 · 10/11/2015 22:45

BrendaFlange

I could equally reply with "you would actually consider sending your DC to a day school instead of a boarding school?"! But really, some people like boarding and some don't. my personal opinion is that if the child enjoys it then there are many benefits.

Thanks for the info on the admissions.

Im0gen
I grew up outside the M25 for the first 18 years of my life, I know exactly what it's like! Also, we have lived outside of the M25 as a family and HATED it.

I've not decided that public boarding school is the best option. I've decided that CURRENTLY it appears to be the best option. I am not inflexible, and if it turns out DC would not like that or thrive there then trust me, he will not be doing it!

ThankGodItsOver
Yes, I agree that going to a school for 2 years at 11+ is perfectly possible, I'm just not sure it s a very nice option? It seems quite stressful to me to have to be in one school for only two years having had to (probably) take an exam to get in, then immediately start preparing for a second exam at 13+. I think that could potentially be very stressful.

My comment on having a good school on the CV was intended to read that I think DC need every advantage they can get nowadays. I'm sure some DC are pretty sorted jobs-wise because they can for example, get an Oxbridge degree or have stunning interview technique and are amazingly personable, but for those who don't have any obvious qualities which make them stand out from other candidates then what else is there? Perhaps having average qualifications from a better-known school is better than having average qualifications from an average school?

LegoRuinedMyFinances
DC is currently quite excited at the idea of boarding. He will be doing a couple of taster nights, so I will have to wait and see how he takes to it and what the feedback from the school is. If he does not get on with it then we will totally rule it out for the time being, but possibly try it again in a few years time once he is more mature.

Yes, I think having a somewhat fixed idea is normal - many people would never consider anything but the local state, even if they could afford it.

It is very hard trying to decide what to do! and very surprising how small the pool of schools to choose from is once you take all factors in to consideration.

It sounds like your school choice was not very straightforward either! Glad to hear it seems to have world out for you and that your DC is happy.

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nightsky010 · 10/11/2015 22:50

WhoknowsWhereTheTimeagoes

What you've said is certainly food for thought! I will read again when I'm feeling less tired and reply more fully / PM you?

Very interesting, thank you!

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nightsky010 · 10/11/2015 22:56

Teqcherwith2kids

Ah, I see what you're getting at. You're right about looking at the overall picture not just the academic experience. I think the overall picture with the exception of the travel would not be very different from what DS has now and is very happy with.

I am currently investigating the state options because I have been bullied into it to satisfy my curiosity. Smile I might have to ask the kind people on this thread a lot of stupid questions though!

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cece · 10/11/2015 23:04

I have a SEN DS at the same stage of education. He is currently in Year 2. There is no way he could cope with any of those commutes and tbh neither could I.

Personally I would look at local state schools. You might be surprised at how well they deal with SEN. For instance my son currently has his own 1:1 that supports him.

ouryve · 10/11/2015 23:06

15 minute walk each way with DS2, in year 5.

OTOH, when DS1 was in year 6, last year, he had an hour taxi, each way, 90 minutes if he had to double up. Now, in year 7, the drive, to the same place, is about 1 hour 20 minutes.

ouryve · 10/11/2015 23:10

And, just to clarify, both have SEN! The 15 minute walk option broke down for DS1. I'm not sure he could have tolerated his commute in year 5 and we're not looking out of county for DS2, partly because there's a good (expensive) option in county, and partly because he couldn't do the drive every day

BrendaFlange · 10/11/2015 23:23

"I could equally reply with "you would actually consider sending your DC to a day school instead of a boarding school?"" - True, NightSky, you could and many doubtless would.

I was just thinking your little chap is only 7, he has difficulties in social interaction, and you are keen to keep down costs if possible (as anyone would be), so Boarding school doesn't seem a natural solution. And I am thinking of state schools as being nearby schools - not as an ideological alternative. Though as I said, my DC's state schools have impressed me no end. We could afford private if we really wanted it - looked at a range, chose state because it was nearer, cheaper...and better. Local teachers who had taught in both said the teachers and teaching were better in the state. The overall results weren't as good because of the differences in intake, but for a motivated supported individual child the prospects were better at the state. Just my circumstances, where I live.

In the end parental involvement and education levels are the greatest indicator of success at primary level - not the school.

Anyway, good luck - I hope you do find a solution that doesn't put such stress on you all as those long journeys.