Is this school run too long? (N London / Herts) Opinions please!

[nightsky010]

I'm trying to find a new Prep school for DC age 7 (young 7) and I'd like advice on if these journeys would be too long or horrible or if they sound ok? OH thinks journey time is a rally big deal, I don't think it is so much.

Both in London / Herts area, schools finish at between 3:50 and 4:30, plus clubs on some days after that.

OPTION 1 (amazing school):
07:05 Leave house and walk to train station.
07:18 Catch train in opposite direction to the rush hour.
07:36 Train arrives, catch taxi from station taxi rank to school - a journey of 1.4 miles through a town centre. No idea how long this takes in rush hour.
Arrive at school before 08:00 sometime??

OPTION 2 (Less good school):
07:30 Leave house, walk 7 mins to tube station,
07:40 ish A 13 min tube journey in rush hour (3-4 stops)
07:55 ish A 10-15 min walk to school
8:10 Arrive at school

Thanks!

I would move then. Do you really need a 4 bed detached house with just two adults and one child? Move somewhere closer to option 1 or 2 that is smaller to make the boarding/ taxis/ dh commute affordable

Op you don't have to move house to apply to a state school! Go round the four nearest to your house, speak to the sencos, apply to whichever you like (if any) and see if a place comes up. Chances are there will be a place in the next couple of terms if you're willing to take it as there's lots of movement in London.

It's really a whole lot less scary than those godawful commutes you're thinking of. And there's no reason why he couldn't get into the secondaries you've mentioned from a state school. Might need an hour a week tutoring but that's easy to fit in with the 10 hours a week you're not commuting...

Pythonesque
Option 1 is very tempting, but I don't know if I'm signing up to something awful for 6 years which will result in us having to change school / house later. Worrying!

Lifts from the station I could imagine being able to do, possibly. Saturday school is from Year 3! I find that quite crazy tbh. I could understand from Uear 6/7, but 3 seems pointless IMHO. But then if it's the worst thing about the school then I can put up with it.

The Preps exits seem exactly what I'm looking for, but I will ask them specifically about exits for SEN kids. Thanks!

I would say he is definitely at the 'milder' end of the spectrum that 'high functioning autism' can cover, then, and as you say, unlikely to attract a statement. Equally, if his behaviour is compliant, then I would expect the risk of him being 'managed out' is really quiite low if, as you say, he's around average academically.

Have you had a full diagnosis from a specialist? I'm only wondering because I would for many years have described DS as 'being on the autistic spectrum', and this was also suggested by the school SENCo (social interactions awkward in exactly the way you describe, found emotion difficult to 'read' both in person and in stories, significant speech issues including a stammer, selective mutism and what I can only describe as 'pre-rehearsed automated speech'). Dreadful fine motor skills including handwriting, though good gross motor skills. Obsessive in interests, and about order and structure. needed 'pre-warning' of every change, and careful preparation for every change of routine. Ed Psych involved.

In fact, DS has no underlying SEN - he was simply extremely anxious, caused by specific circumstances in his environment, and a change in that environment has led to a gradual, but complete, removal of the traits that ticked the 'autism' boxes.

he sometimes finds it hard to come to terms with the idea that there isn't always a perfect solution

Oh god yes.

DS (19, HFA) is a blighter for this one.

We are nearly as bad but seem to muddle through somehow.

Would the whole thing be easier and quicker if you learnt to drive and bought a car?

I would agree with Islington that you don't need to move to access a state school as an in-year applicant. One of the advantages of an in-year entry is that catchment is irrelevant. If they have a space, and you want it, you get it, wherever you live (when we moved, DS was given a place in a school 40+ miles from where we were living at the time - we moved on his first day at that school).

Visit your most local primaries - at least as a basis for comparison - and talk to their SENCos. Tbh, in many state schools, your DS's difficulties, which may seem very obvious ion his current setting, will be something that they encounter every day and they will probably have very good and experienced provision. Also call the council as to which schools have a vacancy in the appropriate year at this precise moment. Go to visit those too, if they are nearby. Call up those schools that are most 'desirable' for entry into Reception - do they have a waiting list for the current Y2? Ask about their turnover - how many children typically arrive / leave in a year? Apply to any that seem realistic - a place may well come up much quicker than you expect.

Is there a school bus?

It may not run to and from the station - but there may be a pick-up point you can co-ordinate with?

(If the school does have a waiting list, then distance DOES matter - the waiting list will be kept in the same order as places were originally allocated. But you very possibly won't need to live as close as you might for Reception admission to be quite high up the list.)

Ok, I'm afraid I agree with teacherwith2kids I have 4 children, one of whom has asd. The one with asd is in a state school and the others will all go through prep and onto independent senior schools. This is not because we love him less or see him as not worth spending the money on as I have been accused of once or twice. It is because as a teacher myself with experience of both sectors and can confidently say without reservation that unless you choose one of the few independent schools who focus solely on SEN then provision is far superior in the state sector. Always. Many schools will pay lip service and be accommodating but delve a little deeper, ask about senco provision and how they will taylor his individual needs and targets and you will see how ad-hoc SN provision is. Even in those highly sought after schools which do a fantastic job with NT kids.

We are currently looking at Sixth forms for DD, and I am baulking at her having to get a train at 7.20am or a bus at 7.10. And she is 16.

I'm quite interested in other parents point of views who have HFA children. We have put a deposit on a private school for our son because he doesn't handle noise well and we thought he would be overwhelmed in a class of 30. He doesn't have any behavior problems and nor learning delays. Now I'm left wondering if perhaps we should go with the state school. Other parents have told me that state provision for highly functioning children is poor because they often don't qualify for a statement or EHLP (is that right?). They just get left to muddle along in a large class.

I really think you need to investigate the state sector, as others here have advised. I know that's probably a big mental leap if you've only been focusing on private options up to now, but from what's been said a decent state school is more likely to be set up to cater for his additional needs, and if there's one that's within a more reasonable commute from home, all of your lives will be much simpler.
If you really won't go down that road, I think you need to learn to drive. Neither of the commuting options you describe sound really feasible, especially option 1.

I'm currently living in Germany and my Y2 DD is going to an international school. We have a commute similar to what you talk about in 1 with a walk to a train and then either a bus or a longer walk. It involves leaving at 7.30 in the morning and school ends at 4pm if she isn't at an after school club that night so she is not home before 5. Once she's home she basically eats, I read with her and she has a bath and goes to bed.

While it works, she is finding it really tiring. In the run up to half term it was particularly hard as everything built up. I think we can manage it because we know that it is only for a year. If it was going to be for longer we would either be looking for somewhere to live closer to school or an alternative school. However much she loves the school it's not worth the grumpy tired unhappy child we have in the evenings. It's not good for her.

You would rather your son end up boarding than downsize a little from a 4bed detached house??

i'm sure this too obvious and you will have thought of this, but could you learn to drive?

Also, (again obvious) but are there other schools that have a coach service?

I do not drive, and for good reason, so I am pretty sure there's a good reason you don't, but since it probably isn't due to affordability is there any way you could look at learning over, say, a year or so, so that this isn't 'forever' as it were.

My ds a journey that takes over an hour each way, it's not easy on him and he is out of the house for 10.5hrs a day. One accident or even roadworks can delay the journey by an hour or more.

Ds has AS and his school is of necessity as opposed to choice, I would not have agreed to this school if there had been a nearer option.

This thread is pretty long now! I'm still replying in order, but my replies are a bit out of sync.

Artandco
Moving is a contentious issue in our family! But I do agree!

IslingtonPrimaries
Thanks, but I'll probably end up sticking with Private for as long as I can - if he can be prepared for CE at 13 (which current school think is realistic) then I'd like him to have as much help for that as possible.

Teacherwith2kids

Good to hear you also think he is pretty mild.

Goodness, that's so interesting about your DS! What you describe sounds like classic Autism. (I forgot to say, we also have the love of routines, rehearsed speech to some extent and a lot of repetitive play centered around the interests. Interest is currently times tables, so no complaint there! DC has always really loved school and is eager to go in every day.

My DC does get quite anxious when required to speak on a particular subject, but I've not noticed anxiety in general, but maybe it could be hidden. If you don't mind me asking, what was the trigger for your DSs anxiety, how did you realise and how did you remove the cause?

Yes, we have had a proper diagnosis. We went private and picked someone very well known. I've got quite a lot of confidence in the diagnosis, but then nobody is infallible.

I had absolutely no idea that in year admissions did not work on the normal distance from door criteria unless there's a waiting list. In all honesty, I think it's a route we are unlikely to go down yet, but I will look at what schools are available, and if there is a really stunning one then I certainly won't rule it out.

Kitties
Haha! Yes, can be a challenge!

Artndco, Cel982, Merrymouse, JHM
Driving is on the list. Haven't done it up to this point as it wasn't necessary before, plus our disposable income is not massive. Unfortunately. Would both need to learn as one of us would do drop off and the other would do collection!

Jazzandh
No school bus for either school unfortunately.

M4Blues
That's very sad to hear some people said that about your DC. How hurtful for you!

There are quite a lot of threads I've read on MN about SEN provision in state vs. Private. What I've gathered from those threads is that in general private SEN is mediocre, but that State SEN ranges from amazingly good to catastrophically bad depending on the school you end up at. I would be very scared of ending up at one of the bad ones. But I suppose if I was doing it as an in year application whilst already at a private school then I only have to apply to ones I love.

ExitPursued
When I was 11+ my school journey was 1hr 10 minutes - car for 20 mins, stay at friends house for 15 mins, walk with friend to the bus stop, sit on coach for half an had to leave the house at 7:20. It was fine. But each to their own! I probably have an odd perspective.

Monsterdecookie
Might be worth starting a thread on this? I'm sure you'd get loads of replies. Not being in a class of 30+ sounds preferable to me though.

MrsMortis
I hear what your saying and it's a pity your DD finds it hard. Our day is currently pretty long and DC manages fine - leaving the house at 8:20, home at 4:55. Once home he has playtime, homework, dinner, more playtime / shower, bedtime story, bed. He doesn't seem tired and seems to be very happy.

Futureme
Got your judgeypants on? ;-) firstly, a lot of people actually like boarding and want their DC to board. Personally, my ideal would be boarding 1 or occasionally 2 nights a week as I think it's a good life experience and good for social skills, plus is good preparation for DS if he wants to go to a Senior boarding school. I would prefer not to have to do 2-3 nights boarding for Option 3 though.

Secondly, We cannot move closer to Option 1 as it makes the commute to work hellish, plus the area is horrid too (high crime rate etc) so not a brilliant quality of life either. The option 1 school is Hertfordshire, so there aren't as many choices of places to move to as you'd think, once you take in to account where has feasible train lines for school and work. So if I don't pick Option 1 due to the commute, do I pick a much less good school (Option 2) or a very good school with too much boarding (Option 3)? We cannot move near to Option 3 as would be a 2 1/2 hour journey to work and we really don't want to live there!

Enterthedragon
10.5 hours out of the house does sound quite long when I consider mine is currently out for 8.5 hours. How old is your DC? Pity it's the best solution for you.

DS is 14 but has been doing this since the age of 10. It would have been much better to have tried weekly boarding but high anxiety and a deep mistrust of school teachers meant that it was not really a viable option when he first started there. I did try and persuade him after the first year but he was adamant that he wanted to come home every day.

Just an extra thought this morning: you mentioned in 1 of your threads that CE at 13 was your preferred route fro secondary, and this led you to rule out state options.

Is it worth 'working backwards' and finding out whether the secondary private schools you have in mind are good for children with SEN including HFA? It would be really sad if you tied yourself into the cost / travel of private prep with a view to CE, only to find that the provision isn't there for him in private secondary?

On DS, his anxiety was school-induced, partly due to a total lack of peer group (he's very able, and seemed exceptionally able at that point - taught himself to read before school, calculating with negative numbers in reception, that kind of thing), partly due to an unfortunate combination of a specific class, specific children and a specific teacher. A period of HE, a house move for DH's job, and finding a larger state primary with an able cohort (and a head who focused on children being happy, as well as academically challenged) and he recovered. Still not very sensitive to social cues, passionately interested in the things he is interested in, and doesn't 'do' close physical interaction - hates rugby - but all within NT bounds for a teenage boy!

I'm trying to work out which school option 1 is as I'm from Hertfordshire. I initially assumed you were taking about H but then you wouldn't need to worry about the CE exam so much. Now wondering if you're taking about L but that seems much further out. I have quite a bit of experience with state primary kids in StAlbans transferring to Abbey or SAGS but no CE as 11+ instead. Fast train in to Town though.

Enterthedragon

Pity he didn't fancy a bit of boarding, but I can understand it! The journey isn't the end of the world if he is otherwise really happy and thriving.

Is it possible that when you look at the costs you also need to add in the additional cost of one to one SEN assistance at some point? I know this would be an extra that you would be expected to fund at many private schools, not one the school would fund.