Is this school run too long? (N London / Herts) Opinions please!

[nightsky010]

I'm trying to find a new Prep school for DC age 7 (young 7) and I'd like advice on if these journeys would be too long or horrible or if they sound ok? OH thinks journey time is a rally big deal, I don't think it is so much.

Both in London / Herts area, schools finish at between 3:50 and 4:30, plus clubs on some days after that.

OPTION 1 (amazing school):
07:05 Leave house and walk to train station.
07:18 Catch train in opposite direction to the rush hour.
07:36 Train arrives, catch taxi from station taxi rank to school - a journey of 1.4 miles through a town centre. No idea how long this takes in rush hour.
Arrive at school before 08:00 sometime??

OPTION 2 (Less good school):
07:30 Leave house, walk 7 mins to tube station,
07:40 ish A 13 min tube journey in rush hour (3-4 stops)
07:55 ish A 10-15 min walk to school
8:10 Arrive at school

Thanks!

Option 1 doesn't sound that good to me, and surely you'll be paying out a fortune in taxis. I think just the train journey and a short walk would be fine, but the train journey and then taxi...

Option 2 sounds basically fine, though a crowded tube train isn't the best way to start off the day either. Maybe you'll get to know which carriage is the least crowded...

I wouldn't be happy with my own 7 year old boarding and just seeing them at the weekends, personally I think under 14 is a bit young, if it can be helped, but you know your own son.

Where are you hoping for him to go to secondary school? Can you consider moving house closer to option 1, if there is an option for secondary in that area too? If you are having to go there every day before work anyway, it might make sense to cut down everyone's journey (except your DH's presumably) by living nearer there.

Have you looked at the journey home too, and worked out timings for that? Is there a convenient train back, or will you in fact be likely to just miss one and have to spend 19 minutes cooling your heels on the platform every day? And ending up getting home after 6pm every day. Bearing in mind it always seems to take children longer to emerge from school at the end of the day than you could possibly imagine (or is that just my child?)

If his needs are sufficient to warrant a statement of SEN (or whatever the hell has replaced statements these days) you would have more leverage to ask for the (state) school you want.

Incidentally, if you might be prepared to move, that sounds like it would solve your commuting problem for him. If so, though, I'd move to somewhere with both state and private options that you like.

The possibility of getting a statement will, of course, depend on the level of SEN ... the label 'high functioning autism' covers a very wide range, from children who have clear social and sensory-overload issues but function reasonably well in a normal classroom without additional support, to those who are in mainstream schooling because it is appropriate for their intellectual needs but need full-time 1:1 to manage behaviour, meltdowns, interaction with others, appropriate response to instructions etc. From local experience, few if any pre-preps would accommodate the latter, so it is likely that the OP's child is closer to the former end of the spectrum.

Nicole
Yes, 7:05 doesn't sound great!! I might do a trial run of that too. Not sure how much earlier DC would need to go to bed.

The current routine is starting breakfast at 7:30 and ready to leave by 8:15. School starts 8:40. After school clubs end 4:30.

Currently DC only does after school play dates about once a term. It's mostly at weekends, but there are very few local parents and most are bogged down with 3/4 kids so it doesn't happen much anyway.... But yes, we would be discounting it with that sort of travel.

BertrandRussell
I did not mean to offend :-) I should have phrased that better, what I really meant is that the 'admissions lottery' scares me.

What further research can I do beyond asking what sort of extra lessons etc he can get and trying to gauge their attitude / level of dedication? (Genuine question.)

TurnOffTheTv
Option 1 would be back at 5:30 I'd estimate. Option 2 would be back 4:30-5:30 depending on if there was a club. Option 3 mostly boarding but other days 6pm....

So option 1 would be 1 hour later than at the current school. I guess I didn't think it's that bad as 1 hour doesn't seem a lot more and DC isn't currently tired and lots of other kids at current school do after school care until 6pm from Reception onwards... Isn't that fairly common for working parents??? Or is my school atypical?

I agree the taxis could be horrifically expensive, I'll do costings!

I think the commute sounds fairly dire to option but is clearly your preference. Could you move closer to that school? Is it through to 18 or will you have to be move him at 13? We have a son with HF autism and are looking at North London schools. I'd love to know which schools you have found that are willing to take HFA. Any chance you would PM me what you've found if you don't want to mention it on here. I'm a bit concerned about what other posters are saying about Even mild SEN kids being managed out.

Jazzandh
I think knocking out the taxi could be tricky given how DH feels about making DC walk too far. I think more like a 30-35 min walk for DC?

DC is not a complete early bird, but currently goes to bed at 8pm and wakes naturally at 6:30-6:45. So not totally out of the question to do it by next Sept, but I suspect it may require a 7:40 sort of bedtime??

Honestly, I'd just move.
Primary is as much about social skills as it is education, that's no good if your child can't learn about the world outside school.
I would also be wary of private schools and statements (or that funny new thing they call it), I've had friends whose children have been 'managed out' or charged an absolute fortune for the additional support. The managed out ones found state so much more supportive and inclusive for their children.

"What further research can I do"

For any child with SEN, entering any school:

• Who is the SENCo? Are they a dedicated SENCo or also a class teacher?
• How many children are on the 'SEN register' (not current terminology, but they'll know what you mean), and could they give you an idea of the types of SEN they have?
• How are children with SEN supported in the classroom? (e.g. 1:1 TA, time from class TA, withdrawal for specialised lessons)
• Does the school employ teaching assistants? Do they, or do specific teachers, work with and support children with SEN? What qualifications / training do they have for this? How many TAs / support staff of this type do they have?
• What specialised provision / interventions are there for children with SEN? Is it in-class or out of class? Is it extra, or provided within the fees? Can you give specific examples of individualised provision you have made in the past for a pupil with your child's SEN, e.g. high-functioning autism?

- What access do you have to outside expertise in specific SEN, e.g. Ed Psychs for assessment? Is this paid for by the school or by the parent? If by the school, how many hours of such support do they typically 'buy in' per year / per child with SEN?

• What have been the destination on leaving for children on the SEN register, typically?

I would expect a specific, and long, discussion with the SENCo in any school I was considering sending a child with any significant SEN to, covering all of the above. I presume that you have full documentation of your DS's SEN from his pre-prep or from an Ed Psych or whoever, and I would expect to share than in some detail with shortlisted schools as part of the application / school consideration process.

!"I'm a bit concerned about what other posters are saying about Even mild SEN kids being managed out"

IMWE, that does depend on the school. Schools which live or die by the destination schools of leavers tend to 'manage out' those who have SEN that reduce their academic ability or would require extensive interventions (e.g. dyslexia, working memory issues etc). Many manage out those who have SEN that affects behaviour (e.g. ADHD, demand avoidance), because of the reputational damage aspect.

Teacherwith2kids
Exactly. The idea of doing an expensive move to a catchment area then doing an in year admission for a school and possibly missing out on it, plus moving DC in the middle of the year does not exactly appeal! Though yes, the idea of being squeezed out of the private system is worrying!! We do not have a statement or EHIC, but even if we did I assume getting one to specify a certain school is almost impossible when needs are fairly mild?

Very good point about checking non 11/13 exits to other schools. I'll make a point of doing that, thanks!

INeedACheeseSlicer
Yes, taxis may cost too much :-( I'll check the cost. I agree Option 2 sounds doable, pity I don't like the school very much!
With Option 3 he would be home Fri eve, Sat, Sun, plus I'd get to see him 1-2 other nights at grandparents. So it's not quite as bad as weekly boarding, but I do think it's not ideal either.

Oh yes, they totally do take ages to leave at the end of the day! Good point regarding missing evening trains.

Hm, senior schools, I'm trying not to pin my hopes on anything as its so hard to predict these things... We still have little idea just how bright he is, especially as the current school is the most laid back place ever. I think it would only be local if it was a London one. But broadly speaking, I'm hoping for either London Day schools such as Mill Hill, Aldenham, maybe John Lyon / Emmanuel or if he wants to board then 'third rate' Publics in the south east such as Berkhamsted, Haileybury, Bradfield, Eastbourne??

Kitties
DH is very against moving nearer Option 1, not least because the area is not great and it is very far from work. I think moving to a state catchment is not something I'd be up for - not really what I want (yet, anyway) and very risky.

Fair enough. Your DH sounds a bit obstructive, though, if I may say so - against the idea of a move, against the idea of a scooter or walking, against the idea of a long journey... what positive suggestions is he coming up with?

If your son's needs are at the mild end, do you really need to go to extreme measures to accommodate them? A nearer school might be just fine.

Where is he currently at school?

I would be tempted to leave him there longer if possible and concentrate on secondary entry at 11/12/13 years old as then the option of boarding is more relistic and you can see how he copes with his additional needs in a few years.

Otherwise a local state school with a nanny/ tutor after school to help him keep up the higher level

Or are you in the position to home tutor a few years until old enough to travel alone/ board a few nights? You could use a nanny/ tutor to half the load part time which would even out to school costs

Teacherwith2kids

DC has 30 mins 1:1 a week with the school SENCO for general stuff, plus 30min a week with SALT I pay for to work on language, story comprehension and social skills (likes other children and will talk and interact with them but can't relate to them and can't 'make friends') which I would agree are his weakest points. I suspect he will also need to use a laptop in the future due to shit handwriting. DC doesn't have any issues functioning in a mainstream classroom and doesn't really have any sensory issues. Behaviour is very, very good at school - very compliant and never had a meltdown. Behaviour at home is not quite as good as at school but is 'normal'. DC is just above average academically.

I always assumed he is not severe enough for it to be necessary for a school to get a statement (the SENCO told me it wasn't necessary) would you agree or not?

MonsterDeCookie

Yes, I'll message you this evening after I've done all my chores - it'd be good to chat schools etc.

I may be being unfair. If (as is pretty common) you or your DH share some of your son's characteristics, your DH may just be very worried at things deviating from his previous idea of How It Should Work.

Been there done that.

Nicole
Getting pushed out is certainly a concern. I agree about social skills and life experiences. I'm trying to choose schools which have a holistic philosophy rather than ones interested just in the 'London exam treadmill'. Option 3 boarding school is especially good for that.

I think both options sound like they're giving too long a school day.
Have you considered all other options, like doing a mixture of DH driving DC some mornings, sharing a lift with someone, taxi all the way?
Will you be applying to state schools just in case you get into one that's good and nearer?
Sorry for all the questions, don't feel you need to answer them if they're daft.

Teacherwith2kids

Thank you so much for the list! That's super helpful! There were quite a few questions on there I'd not asked! Him, I'm starting to wonder if I've actually been a bit naive about the managing out issue? Do you think a lot of the London Preps in particular are very bad for doing this? I'm wondering if a lot of them are telling lies when they claim to be inclusive and offer tons of support?

Kitties
DH just has very different ideas from me and isn't very good at having to compromise in that he sometimes finds it hard to come to terms with the idea that there isn't always a perfect solution - I can't find an incredible school and a beautiful affordable detached 4 bed house a 10 min walk away! One day he will realise ;-)

I can see that the option 1 school could be worth going for. Have you thought about the possibility - especially as he gets older - that once in the school you might be able to coordinate transport with other families especially lifts from the station? And could that allow you to take him one train later if you didn't have to get him all the way to school yourself?

There are several families at my son's school with pretty early starts (8:20 start at school, non-London); on the other hand I know of a family dropping out of a choirschool because the commuting distance proved unfeasible.

From what age does Saturday school start? Schools round here have mostly reduced it; the ones I can think of it is from year 4 and 5 respectively.

Regarding where he goes when he is older - can you talk to the schools you are considering frankly about the kind of schools they send boys on to, especially the quirky or SEN types. I think you do need to have confidence that they are going to be able to give you good advice over the next few years in order to end up with the right senior school placement!

ArtAndCo
No to home tutoring! I can't cope with it and I do t feel it's appropriate for his needs as he needs the social contact and life experiences and practice integrating into a society. Everything screams no I'm afraid!

Staying where he is isn't really ideal either unfortunately.

Kitties
Haha! There certainly is an element of 'How It Should Work' with both of us ;-)

RoganJosh
Yeah, all options are that sort of length of day. But I think a part of that is down to the schools not being the 'leave at 3:30' type.

Unfortunately we don't drive, no parents nearby for lifts and a taxi all the way (except option 2) is too pricey.

I doubt it for the state schools.