School says child with ADD can't learn instrument!!

[Burntthedinneragain]

I am unspeakably cross!

My DC is 6 years old and has mild ADD but loves school and is well behaved and compliant. DC is perfectly capable of learning - can do the usuals such as reading (reading age of about 8.10), can do number bonds and quite a few times tables etc.

After 1/2 term of lessons the music teacher emailed to say that she no longer wishes to teach DC because despite trying very hard DC's "concentration is not at a level which helps maintain learning and therefore is not progressing as we would expect. This can obviously be discouraging for any child when learning something new."

This makes no sense to me whatsoever! Why should my DC not be permitted to learn an instrument because of a learning difficulty!? I am trying to be reasonable - I understand that progress may not be as quick as with some other children, but I am not asking for a Liszt recital within a term, I just want an enjoyable experience and a token bit of progress.

Many 3 & 4 year olds learn an instrument without a problem and DC has much better concentration than a 3/4 year old, so why should she be unwilling to teach DC? I feel that if DC is not progressing as she expects (or as fast as other children?) then teacher needs to adjust her expectations! And as for DC being discouraged, Surely any child can feel happy and proud of their progress if the lessons are set an appropriate level and praise and encouragement are given. Shouldn't I expect that attitude from the music teacher?

Surely this is a case of the teacher failing to teach rather than the child failing to learn? AIBU or is that attitude unacceptable?

(Would also like to point out that I am not one of THOSE precious parents who cannot admit their DC is crap at some things. and I do not want to sound as though I'm trying to say this is the greatest injustice the world has ever seen either!)

Advice / opinions welcome!

I don't think I would be "unspeakably cross". I would just think that it's not working out. She could have said everything was fine and pocketed your money. She had been honest at least and feels from her point of view that your DD is becoming discouraged.

Abandon and start with another teacher, if you wish.

Crotchet & claraschu
Interesting that you see the type of lesson needed to teach some 6 year olds as being not within her remit.... If it is common (and I don't know if it is or not) for teachers to only give quite adult style lessons then perhaps the school should have just done better expectation management - we were always told music lessons from pre prep were no problem (and I always thought that would mean from reception onwards) when actually they should have said that they don't always teach until year 3.

Laundry
Yes, we could get another teacher, but it's just a bit of a pain to have to use an external teacher, especially as we are fairly rural and there are none very close.

needascarf
I am not sure if the music teacher would know about the ADD diagnosis, and I doubt it is discrimination in the sense of "disabled DC can't have lessons", however I do suspect that in practice this teacher would be unwilling to teach a lot of non NT children if they were too much hard work (though granted a lot of children who were not SEN but who were a PITA would be refused lessons).

Ka pike
Lessons from friend of family aren't an option anyway as she is 3 hours away. They do sound good though.

Meditrina
Unfortunately wobble cushions don't work for DC - hyperactivity / physical moving isn't a big problem, it's just mental concentration which is a bit of an issue. Result of using a wobble cushion is that DC fiddles with it and loses balance while sitting! Thanks for the suggestion though :-)

DIY
I've just checked and our lessons are £23.80 per half hour (not in London, in Home Counties). The price range for teachers outside of the school seems to be £17 -£35 per half hour (though £35 is for diploma students). It was really convenient having lessons as part of the school day, and DC seems to respond better to in school stuff, but I think we may have to look elsewhere as this teacher attitude doesn't agree with me!

Charis3
Of course she is, but I don't have to like it :-) I don't find it a very pleasant attitude, and it's at odds with the attitude of the school, which tries very hard to give DCs a chance to try every extra curricular possible and is very inclusive and supportive. AFAIK she is employed full time by the school to help deliver the GCSE / Alevel music curriculum, but she also gives private lessons to other children at the school.

Reni2
Yes, I'll certainly say that to her too.

Arfarf
Yes, I feel the same as you. Schools attitude is such a pity! I wish I had known about it from the start rather than been under the impression they were happy to teach DC from a younger age!

Thanks everyone!

She isn't a full time teacher at the school, if she is giving private lessons.

Needascarf
I see what you mean, and I would agree that there is a point beyond which a child's SEN are so severe that they could not be taught by someone without specialist training, but I think that point is way, way further along the scale than my DC is - DC doesn't have an EHCP and just receives some in lesson support for attention problems. I'm pretty sure any decent teacher could teach him? I think there is a certain amount of laziness on her part.

He didn't practise. No child will progress without. Waste of money and teacher's and pupil's time.

Music teachers are not trained early-childhood specialists. They have often studied music to a high degree, and if they decide to teach, will often want to teach their instrument to those who want to learn it. Teaching a child who isn't ready for that and needs musical games and activities is a totally different ball game. It's a whole different field, and those who do it are often experienced professionals in that. You don't necessarily need high-level music college training to be good at that side of things - you need training in how very young children learn music and ways to interest and engage them, and a good rapport with children of that age. It's a different set of skills. A teacher who is engaged to give piano lessons, particularly if there are older and more skilled pupils in the school, is likely not going to be that sort of teacher. It doesn't make her a failure. It's unsatisfying for anyone to have to teach things that they are not trained in and haven't particularly chosen to do.

I started piano at 5 or 6, and it was fine as I was able to concentrate and get something out of it at that age. Many children are not, and need a year or two more to wait before they are. It doesn't mean that the lessons have to be adult-style, but that teaching the actual skills of learning the piano is different that more general musical games and playing around on the instrument, which might be what you are looking for. There are lots of different types of programs and classes that do exactly that, and it's incredibly valuable - look up things like Kodaly, for example. But it's not wrong of a teacher not to be able to offer that - or not to want to offer it, either. Some children are ready at a young age, and some are not.

Burnt

You seem adamant that it is the teachers fault, get another teacher and hope that the new teacher doesn't screw you over.

I think I've concluded that I'll write to the head of music and explain why I'm disappointed with the music provision at the school.

Thanks everyone!

OP, you seem like you are wounded about what you are perceiving as an insult to your child, so you want to lash out and express your hurt.

It would be better to quietly look for a music teacher who specialises in little ones, or else to wait for a year or two then try again. You don't need to make this rather misguided point.

For all you know, the teacher might be an outstanding performer who is fantastic at working with musically talented children. As an instrumental teacher she is unlikely to have been trained in early childhood/special needs requirements, but has been hired because she is a talented musician. Music colleges only pay lip service to the training of early childhood music teachers, and that is because they exist to train performers. As people have mentioned upthread, teaching music to very young children is a different discipline from teaching students how to shape a phrase expressively, how to move your listeners, how to develop a good technique etc.

If you must contact the school, then it might be prudent to emphasise that you are grateful to her for saving you money, and make clear that you do not think she has "failed", but that you accept that your child is not yet ready for serious music tuition. Ask the school if they can recommend a music therapist who might be more suited to a child with SEN. (Music therapists have usually undertaken courses which train them in working with SEN. They are often good instrumentalists in their own right). Do not show that you are "unspeakably angry" as it will make you look very pfb. You will also potentially damage someone's career because of what might look like a fit of pique.

Is your DC being disruptive in the lesson? The teacher may feel under pressure if the child is not making any progress as it looks like they are not doing their job!

Could you speak to the school or the teacher, explain that your DC has not done any practice and that if you up the practice rate and try for another half-term, could it be reviewed later on?

Child did not practise.

Teacher, school, ADD, concentration or teacher's expectations are irrelevant. Nobody, not the most gifted musician progresses without practice.

Yes yes to what fiizrim and reni2 say....

Tbh, I would also check that your child is not getting distressed in the lessons, as the teacher's last comment (discouraging) makes me wonder if your DC is not actually enjoying it. How is your DC when you practice at home?

Just hang on:
so the first we knew of it was just over a fortnight ago

So you haven't actually paid for any lessons, he hasn't practised, presumably you haven't bought him any of the books he needs.
I'd guess the teacher thinks you aren't really interested in him having lessons, particularly if there's a waiting list.

But it isn't discrimination. I've had ds trialling things and the teacher saying he doesn't concentrate long enough for it to be worth spending money on him having a lesson at present. And I'd rather they said that at that stage than let me pay out money and he doesn't get anything out of it, which you may only realise 2 or 3 years down the line.

OP, perhaps if you are able to speak to the music teacher directly, you will be able to explain that you didn't know that lessons had already started (as you thought your dc was still on the waiting list) and this is why there had been no practice at home. You could also discuss the mild ADD issue to find out whether the teacher was aware of it, and let the teacher know that you aren't expecting your dc to progress at the 'usual' speed and are content with basic enjoyment of the lessons, and that you will now be encouraging practice at home.

I know my post was ignored earlier, I guess thrash metal isn't what you'd like your DC to learn, but everyone has to practise - whatever instrument. DP was a professional musician and still practised every day, DC2 does 4+ hours a day if not more sometimes because he wants to be the best.

If your DC isn't practising or wanting to then maybe it's not for him/her.

So don't they come home with those little music lesson books containing hastily scribbled (in blunt pencil) messages/directions that parents struggle to read? "Please bug.. oh buy.. um.. do you think that's an 'f' or a 't'.. ?"

DD was on a list and piano lessons with school peri. and they didn't start until Y2.

OP, this is discrimination.
It doesn't matter if the lessons are in a group or individual, they should find a suitable way for the child to learn.
If all musicians of the world couldn't learn with a sn there would be far fewer.
oh I'm so

I would email them and tell them you are making an official complaint and then go private. Chances are you'll find a much better teacher anyway as that one seems to be incapable.

OP here - I'm having name change issues!

HellKitty
Really sorry you thought I was ignoring you - I totally wasn't! I will PM you and tell you something that might make you laugh!

Dodobookends
All those things sound like a good idea. I will give it a think! Your esp I ally right about her needing to know why DC wasn't practicing though.

Witchend
Well, he practiced on a few occasions after we found out a fortnight ago, the fees for the lessons will be added to his termly bill and we have never been asked to buy him any books / had any suggestions made above t what to get, although we had already bought a few anyway.

Fizrim, stretto, remi
DC is very well behaved in lessons and tries hard apparently. He says he enjoys the lessons too. You're right about the practice - if only they had told me!

Stretto
Nah, I'm not insulted on behalf of my child :-) I've had a lot of experience with being told DC is crap at stuff and I'm fairly immune to it..... I just can't stand teachers (or anyone I deal with) who do a really substandard job!! I just don't get the non inclusive philosophy (seems a bit like saying a kid can't use paints / do art until they've reached a certain level - very odd to me!) I have to admit I also don't quite understand the idea that a piano teacher for kids of that age would need to be specialised with Early Years - when I was a kid all the piano teachers locally would teach kids that age as well as older ones, and I doubt any of them claimed to be early years specialists. Maybe times have changed!? Also, I rally do think DC's SEN are sufficiently mild that a Piano teacher would not need specialist training... I guess we just have very different perspectives :-)

Oh it's fine! I just hear shredding morning, noon and night from everyone in the house - I have a tambourine that I struggle with! But it's because they want to. And it's started again...argh!

she is presumably self employed, and sets her own conditions about who she does or doesn't teach
But she is still bound by the equality laws and cannot discriminate on grounds of disability. He has ADD and her complaint was that he cannot concentrate. She needs to adapt her teaching.

Personally I would look for a more capable teacher. She might be fine for some, but the fact that she has sent this message without even trying to have a conversation with you first, says that she doesn't see why she should bother doing anything to support his needs.

If you want her to be doing things like listening for high and low notes and making games out of it, swaying like a tree or marching along - those are the sorts of things that early years specialists do. People who are trained to work with young children. Other programmes like Kodaly etc. Lots of good stuff available there.

Piano teachers might well have trained for years at conservatory level and are good at performing. They might have had some training in teaching piano, or if not, are remembering from their own lessons. They might want to be teaching piano technique, how to play certain phrases, how to deal with those sorts of challenges. It's a totally different things.

It's not discrimination to say that a child isn't ready for that yet. It's just that he probably needs a couple more years to get ready for it. It would be a shame to deny the opportunity of learning piano properly to other children of that age who might be ready for it, just because some aren't, by not letting any of them try. But they won't all be ready for it.

If a secondary literature specialist came to a primary school to run a book group with older children, and get them started on the idea that you could discuss characters and so on in a slightly more mature way than they'd be used to, that would be a useful learning experience for them. You might then find Key Stage 1 pupils who were able to join in with those sorts of discussions, because they were mature enough. But some KS1 pupils wouldn't be. Yes, you could insist that the high school teacher try to teach them the alphabet and basic blending and make games out of simple words, but it wouldn't be the best use of her time. It also wouldn't be what she was trained to do. She might not have those skills. She might hate it. It's not necessarily what she enjoys or wants to spend her time doing. That doesn't make her a poor teacher, and it's not her fault. Nor should she be prevented from running the club for older pupils, or allowing younger ones to try as well, since some of them will be ready for that. It's the same kind of thing here. Many KS1 children are ready for formal music lessons, and should be allowed to try. But not all will be, and that's not their fault, nor the teacher's fault. If you just wait a little while, they will be. Or you can get a teacher who does specialise in working with little ones, who is set up for teaching in that kind of way - there are lots of them about, too.