School talking about possibility of moving 4yr old from Reception to Nursery

[ShadowSlipping]

NC for this in case I out myself.

My 4 yr old has just started Reception. He's an August baby and was 6 weeks early, so if he'd been born at term, he'd have been in the next academic year.

His new school has an attached school nursery that he didn't attend, as we were hoping that he'd get a place at our local school (which doesn't have a school nursery). DS instead stayed at a local private nursery which he'd been at a few days a week since he was a baby. Our local school was oversubscribed, and DS didn't get a place, so this didn't work out.

Things have not been going smoothly at his new school. We got called into a meeting with his class teacher and the head teacher.
Firstly, he's behind the other children academically. The main thing here is that most of his classmates attended the school nursery, and they have all been taught phonics in nursery, so are ready for the next steps in learning to read. DS's nursery don't teach phonics - they told me that if a child asks to learn, they'll help, but otherwise, they don't teach them as the school's do this in reception anyway. So DS is new to phonics and struggling to catch up with the others.
Secondly, his behaviour isn't great, he's struggling to sit still and pay attention during group work. I suspect this is partly down to him being behind the other kids, as they say he's better when being taught one to one. And also, he still wants to just play a lot of the time, so I think part of the problem is his relative immaturity. The teachers also think part of the problem is DS adjusting to the new environment and more structured routines.
He's also very tired when he gets home from school and it's been a struggle getting him to focus on his homework.

The teachers suggested possibly moving him down into the school nursery class (and then on into Reception in the next academic year and so on) might be in DS's best interests. But they want to keep DS where he is for another week or two so they can be sure it's not just settling in issues. They've also said that if DS stays in Reception, he's going to have to do lots of extra work, both at home, and in school with his teacher and the TAs, so will have less playtime than his classmates. They've set up another meeting for a fortnights time to discuss this again.

I have had concerns about DS's readiness for school, although as I don't know many small children, I didn't know if I was being all PFB and worrying about nothing. But now we've had this meeting with the school, I'm definitely concerned. I'm feeling that even if they say they think he'll probably be okay in Reception, I'd rather he went into the nursery class so that he won't be burdened with all the pressure of this catch up work. I'd be less concerned if he was actually focusing and paying attention well in class. His behaviour at school this week seems to be getting worse rather than better too.

So... would it be reasonable to ask that he moves down into nursery, even if they come back and say DS will probably cope if we do all this extra work? They said they won't move him without our consent, but DH reckons that they're likely to be overly optimistic about DS's ability to cope because he thinks a lot of parents would view this sort of proposal negatively.

I would bite their hand off to put him into the nursery class.

Most schools do not expect their reception children to know phonics, but I can see that it is unfortunate that most others do as they are transferring to the nursery. In most schools, there would be other children, similar age as your boy, with similar abilities, so it is somewhat unlucky that his whole class seems to be ahead of where they should be. It sounds like a very pushy school.

Whilst I generally think it's a real shame that nursery children are taught phonics and reception children are expected to go straight into structured learning, I think if he were my DC I'd want him to spend a year in the school nursery.

If the hours are feasible and you can afford it, then lots would jump at the chance.

I would say move him down asap. However I would want a written guarantee that he wouldn't be made to "jump" a year further down the line, like when he goes to high school.
I have heard of this happening.
Also I think nursery was unfair to teach phonics in the knowledge that kids would be distinctly advantaged over and above "new" kids when it came to reception year.

I think I would be running a mile from the school, because that all sounds very structured for early years!

If, however, you are happy with the school in general, then him spending a year in the nursery might be a good option - would he stay in that year group throughout school?

I agree with HazeyJane - has this school not heard of the EYFS ? It really is poor practice. A Reception Teacher should be doing a HUGE amount of differentiation in this first term - first month especially.
However, if this is the one you are staying at, it might not be a bad idea for him to move down a year, but, like Christelle, a BIG part of me agreeing would be a letter from the Local Authority confirming they wouldn't make him 'jump' a year at any point in th e future (including - indeed especially at secondary transfer - which is why it's important it's from the Authority not just the school.)

They said if he moved down into nursery, he'd stay with that year group throughout the school.

Good point about getting a guarantee that he'd stay in that year group until he's finished his entire education though.

This isn't like any reception class I've ever heard of, OP (though I have no experience of private schools).

Are you sure you're happy to keep him there?

We'd prefer not to move schools, as this looked like the best option open to us after we didn't get our local schools in the primary school admissions round.

Another one in agreement with Hazeyjane.

In my dd's school, your ds would be one of several who found sitting still and paying attention difficult. He would also be one of the vast majority who had never learned phonics before.

There would certainly be no question whatsoever of having to miss out on playing and needing to "catch up".

I would be suspicious that this suggestion has been based on what's best for the school's stats rather than what's best for your ds.

I would move him down ASAP. It sounds like he is completely out of his depth and that could seriously dent his confidence, and the hard work to catch up could put him off school for life. It's much easier to move him now than have him repeat a year later when he will know what is going on.

The question is how do you tell him that? After he has been in Reception and preped for starting school. "We are going to move you class rooms, this one will be more fun"

I am north of the border with the right to defer.
It was becoming apparent in the preschool group at nursery DS was the youngest, not up to speed with the others, lacking in concentration span, teacher was having to work to keep his attention. Nursery spoke to us about him We could push him but it could be a massive game of catch up, and it would be a gamble for him going into school. He'd either be under the teachers nose or at the back falling further behind. Then the stigma of remedial classes.
I spoke with the school who were on the same vain - any doubt defer - you'll hear people say "so and so was young but did alright" but really we want want the very best for our children we want them to do better than alright.

I've spoken with various teachers too who all said the same thing. We start kids so young (England start even younger than Scotland) that if you were in other countries you wouldn't even be thinking about school.
We opted to drop him back down into the anti-preschool group and have deferred school, he will start in 2016 at 5.5.

Another who says you should take another look at the school.

All this talk of homework, working hard to catch up, being behind, not being able to focus. He's 4 FFS.

I'd be moving schools, not just classes. Could you take him out until a place comes up at the local school, or ask your LA and see if it's possible to re-apply for reception next year.

Reception should be learning through play. Both of mine started, like yours, from a private nursery that focussed on home-from-home, not learning. Neither of them knew phonics, alphabet, anything. Being behind, catching up and homework was never mentioned. Learning at their own pace and lots of games was. They're both in juniors now and are at the top end of the class without ever having pressure to catch up.

One other thing. If he moves to nursery now, will you have to go through all the LA common application for a reception place again next year? I would think you do, as a nursery place does not guarantee a reception place. Which is going to be a complete and utter PITA.

I wouldn't be moving him down - I'd be moving schools if at all possible.

It sounds like the school has completely unreasonable expectations of 4 year-olds. Most schools don't have an entire intake of children who already have a phonics grounding. It's something they're expected to start in reception.

He shouldn't be under pressure to 'catch up' and they shouldn't be discussing him being 'behind academically.' He's in a perfectly normal position for a school starter, and they should be quite happy to work through the usual phonics learning process with him.

Oh God, please bite their hand off! DS was in similar position of moving up a year because of prematurity. He's now in yr 1, but would be so, so much better off in reception. If I was offered the chance to move him down I'd take it like a shot. Academically he is OK, but maturitywise and socially he really struggles.

I don't think it's at all likely that a place will come up at our local school. The population isn't very transient around where I live and there's been no movement at all on the waiting list since the LA compiled it.
In addition to that, a couple of new housing developments that are closer to the school than us have sprung up since January - the oldest of those looks like they'll have houses ready for sale soon - so I think it's more probable that DS will slide down the waiting list.

The school sound positively demented, nothing they have told you about reception expectations corresponds in anyway to any reception class I've heard of. Are you paying them for this or are they just ignoring EYFS?
What other bizarre expectations do they inflict on the children as they progress through the school?

I am really quite shocked by the idea that the school are telling you that if your child is going to stay in year group, that he will need to........do lots of extra work, both at home, and in school with his teacher and the TAs, so will have less playtime than his classmates. and that the alternative is to go down a year.

As the system stands at the moment, most children that delay a year (ie going into year R rather than straight into year 1), are children with developmental delays etc, and the decision is made by several people, so the decision to go back a year, is often something that is discussed along with extra support that your child should have in order to help them.

I know your ds was premature, but everything you have said in your op sounds like your ds is just a little 4 year old. Not knowing phonics at 4, is not being 'behind academically', it is a school having too high expectations.

So... is it really all that abnormal for a school nursery to teach phonics?

I have no first hand experience of school nurseries. But I have one or two friends living in different parts of the country who said they were surprised that DS hadn't been taught phonics at his nursery. One of them said that her DC had been given a stack of high frequency words from their school nursery to learn over the summer holidays before starting Reception.

Yes - it is really poor practice.
Not following the curriculum they are supposed to at all.

hazey - as far as we can tell, DS has no special educational needs, he's met developmental milestones at the normal sort of age etc. The prematurity is really only relevant here because without that he'd be in the year below and have had another 10 - 11 months to mature before starting Reception.

I think it's fairly standard for school nurseries to 'teach phonics' and for lots of children to not be ready, so they might enjoy singing the songs etc very much need to start afresh in reception.

My ds's nursery 'taught phonics' which was basically the correct way to pronounce letters eg 'mmm' not 'muuur', but didn't actually teach the children to read.

In your position, I would contact the LA about the possibility of adjusting your child's year, especially as his adjusted age isn't even four yet.

The abnormal bit isn't the teaching of phonics at nursery (lots of nurseries will do only small amounts of phonics work aimed at the children who are most ready for it), the abnormal bit is the school acting as if they are horrified and have never had a reception child who hadn't already been taught phonics. The school really should be able to meet the needs of your child without creating such a hoohah and flapping around. Of course, they may feel that your child has some sort of additional needs but surely they would have explained that at your meeting and involved the SENCO.

My DCs go to a school with an "outstanding" early years unit (combined nursery and reception). the nursery children aren't taught phonics, apart from a few sessions in the final half-term of the year, where they are gradually introduced to a couple of simple songs etc to help familiarise them with the routines they will have in reception .

None of the reception children get homework apart from reading books.

There has been a change and nurseries are now meant to teach some phonics because they have some four year olds.

Boys have the highest levels of testosterone at 4 until they reach puberty so its a really bad time for them to be sitting down in a school environment learning. The preschool will still be likely to be less structured than the reception class

I would run a mile. They sound super pushy. He shouldn't have ANY homework yet (other than reading with him) and assuming that children will have been taught phonics in nursery (theirs or otherwise) is just wrong. I really would consider the other available schools. It just doesn't sit right with me. Sorry, I know this isn't what you want to hear but this is not the norm for most primary schools and I think their attitude is all wrong.

Also new government guidelines are meant to mean that schools in England can be more flexible with starting age for summer borns