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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Invitation only extra-curricular clubs?

89 replies

thinkingmakesitso · 17/09/2015 21:00

Are schools allowed to do this? Ds is a little disappointed today as a club he wanted to join is not open to him for the above reason. It is for a fairly low-key activity (not sport) that would not require specialist equipment etc and I am not sure whether to raise it.

He is extremely well-behaved and the teacher running it taught his class last year and praised him to the heavens - I think is fondness for her is part of his sadness. In addition, and I know how this sounds, but it's true, a boy seems to get the biggest part in every play, has been council rep for 3 years etc etc has been invited.

In such a small school is this right?

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BackforGood · 17/09/2015 21:18

Impossible for us to say, without knowing what the reasoning behind it is.
I would presume the school has a very good reason for it - be it to support dc with Pupil Premium, or dc who are struggling in some area, or maybe even a 'G&T' type thing.
I can guarantee it won't be because the teacher likes the invited dc more than your dc.

PicInAttic · 17/09/2015 21:21

Could it be a club aimed at children in receipt of Pupil Premium funding (free school meals)?
Some schools are doing that as one of the ways they use (and demonstrate use of) this funding stream.
We've been advised by our LA and a visiting HMI that, provided 80% of the children receive PP, the others can be non-PP so may be worth an expression of interest in case of spare/extra spaces.

Obviously could equally be nothing to do with Pupil Premium at all though!

silverduck · 17/09/2015 21:21

I'm aware of two clubs like this at our school - one is for kids who need confidence building and one was for G&T at maths. I'm only aware of them as I had family members attend, they weren't on the general list that people could ask to go to.

Original poster

thinkingmakesitso · 17/09/2015 21:30

Thank you. I know that the pupil mentioned is not in receipt of the pupil premium and there is never any mention of gifted and talented at this school. However, ds and this boy are very high achievers and I do feel that anything this boy would qualify for, ds would too. He most certainly does not lack confidence. I do realise this is all making me sound like a twat, but it appears to be yet another example of ds being over-looked and this child being selected, but this time it is for something ds really wanted too.

I suppose there is no way of raising it without looking an arse, though. It seems very cloak and dagger with letters handed out to certain children. Unless it is for pupil premium, I can't see how it can be ok.

OP posts:

Snossidge · 17/09/2015 21:34

There are lots of reasons clubs might not be open to all children - funded through PP, aimed at children with SEN or particular talents. Maybe children that are having a particularly tough time at home.

I doubt you know enough about another child to say there's no way he would qualify for anything your DS wouldn't.

exLtEveDallas · 17/09/2015 21:40

You can't say for sure that it isn't Pupil Premium related. DD has qualified for PP since she started school - for her first 4 years because I was a serving soldier and will do for the next 5 years because she qualifies under 'Ever 5' rules. She's never 'needed' the extra help - but schools get it in any case. This lad could be in the same boat.

Original poster

thinkingmakesitso · 17/09/2015 21:47

Well, if he qualifies for PP there is something wrong imo, though I admit I don't know what the ever 5 rule is. He really does dominate almost every event the class is involved in. I have clarified with ds and a certain number of pupils from every class were asked, which I think rules out any reason listed above as I doubt there would be such an even spread.

Oh well, I suppose it's just one of those things and I will need to let it go.

OP posts:

exLtEveDallas · 17/09/2015 21:59

Any child that has ever qualified for FSM then qualifies for PP for the next 6 years after the need for FSM has finished. It's called the 'Ever6' rule.

Any child that has ever qualified for the Service Children's Premium then qualifies for Pupil Premium for the following 5 years after their Service parent has left the military. It's called the 'Ever5' rule.

There are similar rules for LAC

So maybe he qualified for FSM in Reception, or his mum or dad used to be in the military, or he spent a time in foster care. All things that you wouldn't necessarily know about and wouldn't 'show' on him.

So yeah, let it go. You could be being a dick without realising.

Wellthen · 17/09/2015 22:03

Well, if he qualifies for PP there is something wrong imho what does this mean? Who are you to decide which children get pp? Also, you do understand that pp money pays for a huge amount of school resources? At ours it goes a long way to paying staff wages as smaller classes and more tas is part of the support for pp children. How is another child qualifying in any way hurting you?

There are lots of reasons for being pp, you cannot possibly know if this child is or isn't. You also can't know what the spread is ( you clearly don't work in a school!). Our school has about 5 pupils on pp in each class, a fairly even spread. That's not far off average. I've been in schools that have 80% pp.

blaeberry · 17/09/2015 22:04

Have you asked the teacher if he could join?

SouthWestmom · 17/09/2015 22:07

If it's something like a Lego club it may sound great but could well.be to meet SEN needs. And before you say this kid doesn't have any, I don't believe anyone could know all the financial, family and additional needs status of a child without being very close to them

kgov1 · 17/09/2015 22:08

Personally, I don't see the harm in asking but I wouldn't refer to who has been invited though. Just explain DS really would have liked to participate in the club as it something he is interested in but wasn't aware of and ask if he could attend.

From personal experience, if you don't ask, it just festers so you may well raise it with school and try to understand their rationale.

CocktailQueen · 17/09/2015 22:10

Regardless of whether he is eligible for pp, it seems that the school is favouring one boy over other pupils. I'd have a word with the teacher and ask if your son could attend the club too.

Lurkedforever1 · 18/09/2015 09:05

You have no idea why this boy has been asked to attend. As well as pp, he could have problems at home school are aware of, Sen, be there as moral/friendly support at the request of another child etc. None of which you'd be aware of, and not reasons the school will offer to justify their decision.
You could mention your son is interested in joining to the teacher, but not on the basis that it's unfair the other lad goes. But if you get a very vague reply as to why your ds can't go, then you'll have to accept there are personal reasons for the club not being open to all.
I know dds school had several invite only clubs, and yet I only know the reasons for a minority of them through parents I was very friendly with.

BertPuttocks · 18/09/2015 09:42

Ours has invitation-only clubs for children who need help with particular skills or areas.

Lego club, for example, is for children who are being targeted for help with fine motor skills to help improve handwriting. Karaoke club is for children who need more encouragement to read. One of the drama clubs is aimed at children who need extra support with social skills.

TwmSionCati · 18/09/2015 09:47

" Well, if he qualifies for PP there is something wrong "

what do you mean by that exactly? ~Do you know anything about his background?
What PertButtocks said anyway.
You are not coming over very well OP.

MidniteScribbler · 18/09/2015 11:09

I think your obvious dislike for this boy is clouding your judgement OP.

Sometimes when we are starting up a new club, the supervising teacher will start with a smaller group in order to 'train' students who can then help out other students the next time around. When we started chess club, there were over 100 students that wanted to join. The supervising teacher selected ten students who either had knowledge of the game already, or who would be likely to pick it up well. After a term they added ten more, and the original ten would help with the teaching of the new ten. Then the next term was ten more, etc. That meant that we didn't have 100 children showing up who had little or no knowledge of the game and could build the club over time with players of differing skill levels.

BertrandRussell · 18/09/2015 11:12

Just ask the teacher, for heavens sake!

RhodaBull · 18/09/2015 11:28

I had two dcs go through primary school and the only time I raised my head above the parapet was when a group was started offering enrichment activities to a "chosen few" which became a very badly-kept secret. These children were not pupil premium or had any hidden needs (I knew) but the acting head had sort of taken a shine to them and they went on fully-funded day trips to a range of very interesting places and did activities that were not aimed at, say, the best artist or the best sportsperson, which was ludicrously unfair imo.

I complained not on behalf of dd, really, who is not especially talented in any extra-curricular way, but for those who were good at art (eg they went sketching in the National Gallery) or had other interests which they would have enjoyed pursuing.

Anyway, I got short shrift from the school. However, the "special group" idea was canned and a teacher told me that the Head (now departed) had been hauled over the coals by the governors for it (it had cost a ton of money).

Just getting this off my chest - it's not always pupil premium issues etc - some teachers are a bit blinded by certain pupils' glowing halos.

Witchend · 18/09/2015 11:34

There's a number of things that can give pp, and it continues afterwards, so you could easily miss it.
A friend I know increasingly well over the last 6 years dropped into the conversation that his dc were adopted. I couldn't help remembering the conversation I'd had a year ago commenting how my his middle one took after him. he thought I knew, and was surprised I didn't.

Invitation only at my dc schools has varied from ones where everyone gets an invite for one week during the year, randomly drawn out, children who said they were interested in the subject when the teacher brought it up, those who need a bit extra support (socially or academically) or teacher chosen as to who they think would get most out of it.

mrz · 18/09/2015 17:37

Ask the teacher if there is any chance your son can join the club as he would really like to take part.
If the answer is no I'm afraid you'll just gave to accept there is a reason the school isn't going to discuss with you why the other child is included and yours isn't ?

Ferguson · 18/09/2015 19:02

When I was a TA I ran a lunchtime touch-typing group with Yr2, but I insisted it was not open to everyone, as I only wanted children I knew would be able to concentrate and cope with it.

This worked fine for some months, until a new headteacher came in, and she said voluntary activities had to be open to all.

I said I wasn't prepared to accept that, so I closed the group.

BlueBlueBelles · 18/09/2015 19:06

My son is involved in invitation only groups. He's high functioning ASD. I don't shout that from the rooftops. To some parents he's a badly behaved kid who gets extra rewards. They know fuck all. I ignore them.

SouthWestmom · 18/09/2015 20:11

God it really pissed me off when posters claim they 'know' the other children don't have x,y, z. How? Bearing in mind even the parents don't bloody know to start with and its only after years of tests and observations in many cases, how the hell would a random mum know? And what if there are family or emotional issues? I suppose you can tell by looking?

Original poster

thinkingmakesitso · 18/09/2015 21:01

Well, I know how I come across on here and how I would see it if I was reading, but it is how it is and, while I certainly don't claim to know all about this child, I know certain things pertaining to this issue. For example, it's really not hard to know when a child has fsm or not, or whether his parents have been in the military in the recent past when your child has been friends with him for 5 years and visited the house etc.

In addition, ds has now been told, via my ex, who asked the teacher, the reason for this club. It is related to an academic matter but ds is adamant that this child is on the same level as him for this and that their work is of a similar standard. They are on the same table and he says he knows. I know he doesn't have a teacher's perspective and that he is not qualified to know what she does about this other boy's work, and I told him that.

However, when you put all this together with the fact that this boy is the leading light of everything the school does, and that I have hosted him several times and found him, well, confident and outgoing, to put it politely it is hard not to feel a little put out. The school council thing was another thing I was annoyed about - they all wrote speeches, ds wrote a great one, as I'm sure did other children, and this boy got it for the third year running. Even a plumber who recently did some work for me turned out to know the family and commented on how well thought of this child is by his parents and how confident he is. I just smiled and nodded, but it was good to know it's not just me.

I know I sound bad, but I think unless you have experienced something similar, you don't know how it can make you feel.

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