Primary School wont diagnose dyslexia

[bethalexander]

My 9yo DD is really struggling with her spelling and is bottom of her class. We think she has dyslexia but her primary won't test her. Getting her tested privately costs a fortune. Surely the primary have a duty to test her?

Not diagnosing shouldn't cost because with or without a diagnosis schools should be providing appropriate support/teaching to ensure every child succeeds. The problem is that many schools fail to teach all children and a few even cause the problem by poor teaching.

I think people are unaware of what can be achieved using a really excellent linguistic phonics programme such as the one Mrz's school uses
And from reading this thread, I think people (including teachers) are unaware of the reality of dyslexia; the lack of support available and the poor literacy rates across the country.

I have relatives with dyslexia and they're involved with dyslexia organisations. The impression that this thread gives that 'an excellent phonics programme' is all you need to make a difference for dyslexic DCs is absurd. And if that isn't the implication of the posts discussing phonics then I'm not sure why they were felt relevant to a thread about dyslexia.

Three different posters have pointed out your mistake, Rhonda. Do feel free to reiterate the rules of posting to all.

Maybe it would have been clearer if instead of saying the children in your class were reading The Tempest, you had posted what you subsequently posted by way of clarification.

In other words, it would have been clearer if you'd posted what they were actually reading, rather than just saying that they were "reading The Tempest", which to most people means the play, in its original form.

Anyway, off out now, but will answer any more questions about this later.

And I have admitted I made a mistake, feenie.

With slightly better grace than you.

They were actually reading a book called The Tempest suburban ??

I don't think feenie made a mistake suburban

Oh, there's a distinct lack of grace somewhere, that's for sure.

The impression that this thread gives that 'an excellent phonics programme' is all you need to make a difference for dyslexic DCs is absurd.

On the contrary; a 'good phonics programme' has been seen as the key to remediation/alleviation of 'dyslexia' for getting on for a century. Since at least the 1930s when the Orton-Gillingham programme was developed. I make that about 80 years.

I'd also take issue with this: dd was diagnosed formally in year 9. By which time she had outgrown all the methods available to help her..

That is utter rubbish. From what I have heard from 'dyslexia specialists' over the past couple of decades it sounds like the extremely ill informed belief that phonics is only for infants learning to read.

Maizie Phonics only works if you can transfer the sound of the word to the letters on the paper. As I have said before her version of phonics bares no resemblance to the word. I think given the type of school dd attends the EP realised that dd was never going to be academic or hold down an academic type job.

Oliversmumsarmy if taught there are very few children who can't learn how to transfer the sounds they hear to paper. Your post makes me feel very sad as it seems as if your child has been let down badly.
Some ordinary schools achieve 100% reading and writing year on year do you really think they never have a single child who finds things difficult ...the difference is they don't give up!

mrz ds i know is dyslexic but I cannot get him tested, he goes to a different senior school to dd, the school know he would have a diagnosis of dyslexia and are "helping" him but because he has not been tested by an EP then what problems he has can only be guessed at. Dd during her test did things that I would never have thought were anything to do with her dyslexia. But it did explain a lot. Dd was shown that in order for her to learn she has coping strategies in place.

Ds can spell excellently but only just learned to read of sorts when he was 12. He can explain what everything from a synonym to a hyperbole is, when you use colons, exclamation marks and full stops but cannot write a short readable story for toffee. He can tell you the best stories but just don't ask him to put pen to paper.

I think that there is an attitude that you just need good teachers, the right strategies and things happen and other things don't. But in reality trying to get a diagnosis depends on your postcode and whether the HT likes you.

They don't just happen that's the point they need to be learnt. Why would anyone choose to do something that is obviously a struggle! Then it becomes a vicious circle of feeling everyone can do it but you

Mrz just a comment on your last line

Some ordinary schools achieve 100% reading and writing year on year do you really think they never have a single child who finds things difficult ...the difference is they don't give up!

From personal experience I have found that if you have children who struggle academically in an OFSTED outstanding school it never gets to the point of leaving at the end of school. You are put in a position that you are given the opportunity to leave before they ever get to year 6. Or I might just be really cynical given the circumstances of dd and ds in primary.

Well these children have been there to the bitter end to be in the stats

Things happen, was that the teaching staff are not made redundant and and are available to give children the extra help they need.
Not happen refers to the school not being able to get rid of it's SENCO department and have it only exists on paper only.

School won't refer to Ed Psych unless they feel they can't meet her needs. The SENCo may already be involved. Does dd have an IEP in place? Call DyslexiaAction tomorrow. They charge a bomb for diagnosis (only an Ed Psych can diagnose - teachers can assess tendencies) but they are a charity and if you can't afford the test they may be able to subsidise one for you. Even with a positive diagnosis, school will probably only continue providing the support they are now. If she is on 2nd centile academically in 2 areas, you may get a statement and can then force LA to pay for independent special education.

I've just read thro a bit more of this thread. Your dc needs an Ed Psych report to establish exact areas of difficulty. Arrange a meeting with the HT, involve local MP, ring around private Ed Psychs in the area and tell them your concerns and that you can't afford a report, could they reduce their fee (assuming you can't afford a report - sorry but I'm guessing that's the case or you would have already got one), see an optician who specialises in dyslexia for an assessment if you can. If you can find one/can afford to see one then they are good at assessing suitability of coloured overlays, ambidexterity (that can also cause issues with processing). Good luck. It must be so frustrating for you.

Aplaceonthecouch - I'm afraid threads do sometimes wander from the initial subject - that's just the nature of discussion forums. As it happens, I wasn't talking about remediation of dyslexia specifically. However, it is I think worth drawing people's attention to this quote from a report by Ofsted about schools like Mrz's that teach phonics really well:

"The best primary schools in England teach virtually every
child to read, regardless of the social and economic
circumstances of their neighbourhoods, the ethnicity
of their pupils, the language spoken at home and most
special educational needs or disabilities"

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/379093/Reading_20by_20six.pdf

Also, this recent meta-analysis concludes that the only proven method of remediating dyslexia is via phonics tuition. That doesn't mean it will always work, but as the report quoted above seems to indicate, it is a good step in that direction.

www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0089900

Maizie Phonics only works if you can transfer the sound of the word to the letters on the paper. As I have said before her version of phonics bares no resemblance to the word.

I'm really not sure why you have said this. I was commenting on the EP's remark about your dd having 'outgrown' all the methods available to her. And speculating that phonics may have been one of the 'methods' so dismissed. It is still utter rubbish.. you can't 'outgrow' a teaching method...

The research provides the answer tomatodizzymum ... Which I would have thought anyone working with SEN would be familiar with. pérhaps, except the 'reasearch' is not one peice, but actually many that have been building knowledge since 1980 and are continuing to do so. Concluding that children don't rote learn is not the same as knowing that memory doesn't function the way previously thought. Memory still plays a role in learning.

I don't work with learning disabilities btw. I work with children who have post traumatic stress disorder.

That aside those that are lucky enough to find the mainstream methods of teaching are working for dyslexic and other SEN children are very lucky.

Oliversmumsarmy What works for one child will not work for another, children are like feet and education is often very like a specific size and style of shoe.

As I said earlier it's not about having the right and most modern approach and expecting children to learn, it's about knowing a lot of different approaches and adapting them to fit individual children. Being fully prepared to re-assess those approaches as the child either progresses or regresses.

You can't outgrow a method but for some children a specific teaching method can and often does not even grow in the first place. Trying and trying is like flogging a dead horse and can set the child up for continued failure, while neglecting to explore other avenues that might hold the key.

That aside those that are lucky enough to find the mainstream methods of teaching are working for dyslexic and other SEN children are very lucky.

What prompts you to say this, tomatodizzymum?

The key method of teaching 'dyslexic' children has, for the past 80+ years, been structured, systematic phonics. This is now the mandated mainstream method in England. So it isn't 'luck', it's giving children the teaching they need. (apart, of course, from the fact that phonics can still be taught extremely badly and luck does, I suppose, play some part in whether or not a DC will be well taught...)

I say it because the UK has some of the lowest literacy levels in Europe and I have seen many children who prove this. In the USA too.

I personally would not assume the cause is poor teaching of a perfect system.

So do you have any experience of actually teaching struggling children to read (English) tomatodizzymum?

I think we might be talking at cross purposes, tomatodizzymum.