Primary School wont diagnose dyslexia

[bethalexander]

My 9yo DD is really struggling with her spelling and is bottom of her class. We think she has dyslexia but her primary won't test her. Getting her tested privately costs a fortune. Surely the primary have a duty to test her?

mrz, you know five year olds that can spell EVERY SINGLE word they hear, without error? Amazing, I have NEVER come across this.

The key there Feenie is represents UNTIL they find the correct one, not sounds it out using the rule for .

I think the point you missed is my 5 year old can spell ANY word you say to him in Portuguese, using his knowledge of syllable sounds.

You said the 'the code is useless'.

It isn't. When taught properly, it enables children to read and spell.

tomatodizzymum Fri 05-Jun-15 18:29:25

My child can spell, that's the point. It takes longer for English children to learn to spell so that's why it's not so critical in year 1 and children are given time.

The statutory programme of study for children in Year 1

Pupils should be taught to:

spell:
    words containing each of the 40+ phonemes already taught
    common exception words
    the days of the week
name the letters of the alphabet:
    naming the letters of the alphabet in order
    using letter names to distinguish between alternative spellings of the same sound
add prefixes and suffixes:
    using the spelling rule for adding –s or –es as the plural marker for nouns and the third person singular marker for verbs
    using the prefix un–
    using –ing, –ed, –er and –est where no change is needed in the spelling of root words [for example, helping, helped, helper, eating, quicker, quickest]

apply simple spelling rules and guidance, as listed in English appendix 1

and yes I know five year olds who can spell accurately in their independent writing containing ambitious vocabulary.

and you are missing the point that five year olds can spell words in English using their knowledge of our orthographic code.

yes Feenie I have never said it doesn't, it enables them EVENTUALLY. My son is learning the sounds and codes. He will learn to read and write just like most other children of 5. If he gets stressed or feels he is stupid or slow then it will be harmful, it will take even longer and have long term affects.

It is considerably more difficult in English than it is in his second language and other languages. I have seen the problems with children in Year 1 (in the UK) having to take formal spelling tests, I have seen them shake and worry. It is not healthy to focus too heavily on "getting it right". For some children they are fine with this but no class is made up entirely of those type of children.

yes Feenie I have never said it doesn't

Yes, you did.

Take your example you can only know that an word can represent one of three sounds. To correctly read the word though you have to simply learn the word, the code is useless.

If he gets stressed or feels he is stupid or slow then it will be harmful

That isn't how the vast majority of children learn to read as is an extremely odd thing to assume as a possibility.

and

You have to learn the word. You use the code as a process of elimination, find the right pronounciation and then learn that pronounciation with that word. Some children may remember the pronounciation the next time they see the word, others may need to apply the code several times before they learn the word. In either case they need to learn the word though, the code only allows them to discover the sound before they can learn the word, it is useless as a process by which they can accuratly read the word each and every time. That is what I meant.

I spent 10 years as a special needs teacher, many, in fact far too many do and as a result some struggle to read for years. In my experience teachers can be a big factor in the stress and anxiety of struggling children.

I should say teaching methods.

Of course. I spent my first three years of teaching trying to find out how we could stop children leaving our school unable to read. Since we began to use phonics exclusively, since 1998 just 3 children have left reading at below level 3 - all of them went on to attend specialist education settings.

Undoubtedly, our teaching methods were to blame for some stressed and unhappy children before then.

You are the only one mentioning formal spelling tests tomatodizzymum. Spelling tests don't teach spelling only memory. It's well researched that children who do well in spelling tests don't apply it in independent writing.

You seem to be confused, tomatodizzy - one minute it's the English alphabetic code that stresses children out, the next it's poor teaching. I don't think anyone would agree with the latter, so I'm not really sure why you brought it up.

We were discussing this in the staffroom earlier this week and in 30 years we have had only 4-5 pupils leave us unable to read well and all but 1 left for special secondary schools.

mrz - How do you define 'reading well'? Are you claiming your school gets 100% level 4bs and above in reading every single year? Or are you using a different definition?

I would claim that barring the odd new arrival, usually with no English, we get 100% level 4 or above, yes. It's not difficult to teach every child to read.

We had one child fail to achieve level 4 or above last year ... He arrived at our school the week before the tests so I'm sure you will allow his reading level was beyond our control ... Or perhaps you won't.
Our reading results are high (even children diagnosed as dyslexic) but we often have new pupils arrive in Y6 so our results tend to be high 90s not 100% I'm afraid.

In addition all children leaving us have reading ages and comprehension ages in excess of their chronological ages (with exception of children who arrive from others schools late in Y6).

Do you have children whose parents have little or no literacy skills? Just of interest, as the children have very little help at home in these cases, and we have a few in our school. To the point that we can't even send home basic cvc words for the child to sound out, as his mum doesn't understand what he has to do.

Yes we have pupils who have parents who cannot read or write at all beyond signing their name.

No Feenie I am not in the least confused. The English alphabetical code means it often takes the same child longer to learn to spell in English than in another language. Not that it stresses them out.

What stresses children out is emphasis on getting spellings right.

It's well researched that children who do well in spelling tests don't apply it in independent writing. That's because when children are free to be creative they are not concentrating on the accuracy of their spellings. Their ideas are flowing fast. Their brains are growing and they are using different areas of their brain for creative writing, rather than concentrating on recalling the accuracy of spellings. It's for this very reason that while it's important to make sure spellings are accurate in the long run, for children like the OPs and Zebda's it's important not to pick up too much on the spellings.

Yes, and also parents who can't speak English at all.

It's a very outdated view tomatodizzymum. Children can be highly creative and spell accurately ... It isn't a case of either or.

We also have a reputation for good reading results for dyslexic children - this year we have 3 girls, two of whom are teacher assessed at a 5 and one at 4.