Primary school place shortage in Crouch End September 2015

[cgehansen]

Hi, Has anyone been affected by the shortage of primary school places in Crouch End? We put the 6 closest schools to us by distance on our form which are Weston Park Primary, Rokesly Infant, Coleridge Primary, St Aidan's, Ashmount Primary and Campsbourne Infant. We've been turned down from all of them and instead have been offered a school in Wood Green which is a 48 minute walk away. I know of at least 5 others in the same situation.

I'm trying to get a group of us together to take this up with the Council so if you are in the same boat or know somebody else in this situation in Crouch End it would be great to hear from you. Only in large numbers can we make the Council take notice.

Oh, I see. It wouldn't be surprising for Haringey to be ignoring their statutory duties around waiting lists, which is what they're doing if everyone is being told to do an in year application.

We have all been told to do an in year application, which is nuts.

The council does seem to constantly contradict itself though, so I'm not sure what the reality is (perhaps I would have stayed on the list without having done an in year application).

They were pretty clear that everyone had to re-apply (as in year). Makes a frustrating/emotive/messy process worse which is a shame but I don't suppose it's truly changing outcomes.... I hope...

Well, except if there is no waiting list for a school, I happen to be the first person in the queue this week, the school informs the LA that they have an available place, and I am awarded that place because I'm top of the list.

Meanwhile, people who should be on the waiting list because they put the school as one of their preferences and have sibling link/are closer haven't been kept on the waiting list, so aren't offered the place that should 'rightfully' be theirs.

Given that there are few 'no shows' in CE, this is unlikely but possible.

Well, good news for us as Haringey have now called and offered a space from tomorrow; apparently due to staggered starts in Reception DD hasn't even "missed" anything, as the last wave only starts this week. So a huge weight off our minds! (and no double-school-run logistics pain any more :)).

However definitely interested to hear how things play out for others - Haringey have definitely made it more messy than seems necessary, and there's still definitely lots of perceived pressure on spaces around the area...

Great news. What a relief!

Congratulations. Must be a relief. Nothing for us yet. The waiting lists are shorter than before but have got longer since the 14th September.

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that Haringey council are pretty rubbish?

Dealing with them is about as pleasurable as banging one's head against a brick wall.

What's happened twelfstripe?

It's a long story cheese, and mostly pretty boring.

The short of it is that they have been very incompetent while handling our application, which may well have costed dd a place at our local school with her friends. I don't know if I have the will to appeal.

Haringey Council are the arse end of incompetent.

One advantage of this being is that they're very used to people bring appeals/complaints/legal proceedings against them and are used to backing down.

There are a number of admissions experts on MN, who help a lot of people with appeals etc.

Try our Local site for Haringey, which has a talk board where you can ask locals for advice & recommendations, plus thousands of listings including a What's On guide and local schools, where Mumsnetters can add their reviews local.mumsnet.com/haringey

There is a story in the Ham and High today:

"Haringey Council to crack down on families who move away after securing good school place - A loophole allowing families to get their children into the most popular primary schools despite living miles outside catchment areas is set to be closed by Haringey Council following complaints from parents and carers."

More at:

www.hamhigh.co.uk:80/news/education/haringey_crack_down_on_families_who_move_home_after_secure_school_place_1_4262636

That's positive nlondondad but the article doesn't say at what distance sibling priority will no longer be given, or did I miss that?

I am slightly bitter at having missed out on a place in part due to siblings who live miles away.

The article is not clear on that point, nor is it clear on whether the proposal, if adopted, would affect admissions in 2016, or whether it is already the arrangements for 2017 that are being discussed. But the article is consistent with the simple option of just abolishing sibling priority being the one proposed.

What the outcome of the FOI(as reported) tells us is that this year, if sibling preference abolished the number of places offered on distance alone would have more than doubled, and that at least ten more places would have been available to local parents as the ten siblings more than a mile away would not have got an offer with the ten offers going to others on distance

It's the admissions policy for 2017 that is being consulted on. The 2016 admissions policy has already been published. The change would not be retrospective so siblings of children already at school will continue to get priority so I doubt there will be much benefit for local kids in the first few years if these new arrangements go ahead.

It might make a little difference but I doubt it will be terribly effective. As I have written earlier what would stop people moving several times for each child? Or move for the few years it takes to get their children in and then move once youngest one is in? There will probably be less movement due to it being more of a pain for parents but won't really stop it. Could the LA be doing something for the sake of it rather than solving the actual problem?

Well, if people don't move until the youngest sibling is allocated a place, that child is entitled to a place both on distance and sibling priority, surely?

Unless you think children should be asked to leave a school if their parents decide to move further away?

Christina is your question is directed at me? If it is I don't think you understand my point. It is not that the children should not be allocated a place or loose it if they move. Just that the problem the article pointed out was that people get the first kid in and then move and the sibling has priority over local children and Haringey proposes to change that. My point was that this will not necessary stop people from moving, they might just stay the couple of years it takes for the sibling to get a place and then move.

Does anyone understand why this proposal is only for primary schools and not secondary (where the same issue applies)? Surely sibling priority should be even less of an issue at secondary level, when it's not as if parents have to drop kids off at school (and so ideally would have them both at the same school).

Maybe it will cover secondary as well. There's nothing on Haringey's website yet on when they will start consulting on the 2017/18 admission arrangements.

I think this is a really progressive step and despite all the grief that Haringey get on here at least they are listening.

A couple of points on stuff mentioned above if Haringey follow the Wandsworth model....

If a family moves and still wants to maintain sibling priority they must remain within 800m of the school.

If child #1 is at school now but child #2 isn't and the family hasmoved beyond the 800m limit then child #2 will lose sibling priority - so this policy will have an immediate effect in alleviating local place pressure.

If a family moves after the last child has got a place then so be it. They will have been in the area for likely 3 years minimum and so not at a temporary address I.e within the rules.

More than half of siblings living further than the last distance child? I think that stat says it all with regards to admissions cheats. The rules need tightening up and this is a good one.

And my point is that the younger child will then be allocated a place on distance.

I agree that lots of people will just wait a couple of years to move (assuming that they have two children close together).

Reception school places will be allocated to children from the local community though.

Isn't that what people have been saying that they want?

The demand for school places in CE will most likely still be higher than supply, simply because of the sheer numbers of families with young children in the area.

thenineties people who get their oldest child in to their preferred school in CE, then move and use sibling criteria for subsequent children aren't "admission cheats" under current legislation.

I know a number of families who have done this. Lived in the area pre-children for years, had a family, then waited until they had secured a school place for the eldest before moving house.

PITA if your oldest child lives nearer the school than their youngest, but not "cheating" the system.