Primary school place shortage in Crouch End September 2015

[cgehansen]

Hi, Has anyone been affected by the shortage of primary school places in Crouch End? We put the 6 closest schools to us by distance on our form which are Weston Park Primary, Rokesly Infant, Coleridge Primary, St Aidan's, Ashmount Primary and Campsbourne Infant. We've been turned down from all of them and instead have been offered a school in Wood Green which is a 48 minute walk away. I know of at least 5 others in the same situation.

I'm trying to get a group of us together to take this up with the Council so if you are in the same boat or know somebody else in this situation in Crouch End it would be great to hear from you. Only in large numbers can we make the Council take notice.

Oh sorry cge I had not quite realised that it was the head of admissions. One would hope they know what they are talking about.

Christina I did get a place as I could prove I had sent them all the info at the right time so they had to give me a place without going to appeal. And yes I guess you are right about them being badly funded. However I do think they could use the money better than being more effective. A lot of their time is spent on answering emails and phone calls from people because there is not adequate information on their website around admission rules, distance to schools etc. with regards to home to distance measurements for example. Rather than checking and replying to what must be hundreds of enquiries surely there could be a link to a site where people could check themselves. Ditto the information I just needed from them. Could not find any answers on their website so have spent time (theirs and mine) emailing back and fourth.

That's interesting. I remember thinking that the online 'Admissions' handbook was very useful in terms of providing information about previous year's admissions/siblings/distance/appeals.

Also, the facts and myths about admission procedures.

It never occurred to me that the council should be able to tell me how far my home was from a particular school - surely Mr Google Maps is the source for that?

The day-to-day administration is chaos, but that's not surprising since they've had more than 50% staffing cuts over the last 5 years, with increasing numbers of school applicants.

School distances are not as simple as Google maps. Even the DfE's online tool based on post code is inaccurate. As I've discovered this year you need to be a bit of an expert in map coordinates and scale factors. Google tells us we are 300 metres from our second closest school when we are in fact 400 metres away because of the curvature of the earth. That's the difference between a chance of a place and no chance. Freemaptools helps but with a system this complex accurate information on how you are from a school is very useful to have. In a world of consistent quality schools large enough to cater for the local area it wouldn't be needed but you'd need to move out of England for that.

Then it's surely not the council's job to be providing every household with detailed measurements taking into account the curvature of the earth etc!

christinarossetti most councils have their own tool/method for measuring distance to school. When a school has a catchment of 200 metres it does make a difference as to which distance calculator you use and it is important to use the same one as the council particularly in the case of an appeal.

My local council actually provides an online distance measurement tool for this very reason.

Yes, an online tool would be sensible, but it's completely unrealistic in a borough where services have been cut to the bone and more to expect the admissions team to respond to individual enquiries about how far a particular property is from a particular school.

And an online tool wouldn't address the problems of demand outstripping supply in CE which seems to be causing people most headaches.

Haringey actually offers this via their website but also on their telephone waiting message. They do say you can only get it if your child is starting school and from their main resident but of course they can't check this. Since catchments are so important and critical as to if people are going to get a place I think it is fair that they are able to find out what measurements the schools are going to use to determine their fate and if they have any chance at all of getting into one of the six choices they have put down on their application. Problem is a lot of the sites where you can measure distances including the postal, Google, DfE all give different measurements to the council. There was only one site I found which matched the council figures and that worked for across London and indeed England. It was set up by some random guy and if he can set up a website which gives the right figures why can't the council? There only really needs to be one website which all councils can use. That would be a very little cost per council and saves ££££s in them having to check for everyone that asks and send them an email. Basically if things are done properly first time round, resources are available for other things. Again the lack of effectiveness and just plain sense is just downright alarming.

I absolutely agree that Haringey council could do things much, much more efficiently, but honestly what difference would this make?

Cut off distances change year to year, sometimes very drastically. It was very shocking when Coleridge doubled its reception intake to 120 places and the admissions area actually shrunk that year. No-one could have predicted that and knowing exactly how many millimetres you lived from the school wouldn't have made a jot of difference.

All councils actually use the same system. It's based on Post Office address coordinates. The database isn't freely available but you can get the address coordinates of your home using freemaptools and the school by searching online. Then you work out the distance using freemaptools. But as christina says knowing how many millimeters you are from the school isn't going to get you a place there.

I guess you are right. I was moving and maybe became a bit obsessed with the distances. But believe me the differences were not in centimetres..... I am obviously still obsessed ;-)
Although I would imagine a lot of people unless they are absolutely sure they are in catchment would have contacted the council. Especially in places like mussel hill and crouch end where there are the so called black holes.

The council can't really tell them anything deal breaking though.

People like OP put down their nearest 6 schools and, without a sibling link, are outside the cut off difference for all of them.

Newcomer to the thread...

I'm applying for in-year admission to Haringey schools, having moved into the area, and am stunned that, in the week where schools come back, have empty spots in various year groups, and are communicating these spaces to the Council, the Schools Admissions system has been shut down for an upgrade, and they say that no offers (since the system was shut down) are being issued till next week. Hell of a way to run an admissions system. Also no publicly posted information on this process and the reasons for it.

(That said, a couple of years back in our old area, we applied for an in-year admission to a nearer school that was in a different borough - the application was sent, but the receiving borough's education team "didn't download it from the shared server" until I called to prompt them.)

Welcome to Haringey .

The local council is NOT a strong point.

They say the shutdown is to enable them to upgrade their computer system for 2016 admissions. I suspect it's come as a surprise to them that they can't keep the 2015 waiting list open whilst upgrading the system. Hence what appears to be a hastily arranged shutdown.

Well APtwinset the shutdown might work to your benefit if you have just moved and are close enough. It means you might get to the top of the queue doesn't it? Not great for those who would have been at the top of the various lists.

So it seems Haringey's still not opened the waiting list...

I spoke to them 3 times today... systems issues in the morning... they did eventually 'confirm' that DD is first on waiting list (sibling pref) but also that no place had become available. Very disappointed that at the start of academic year across 4 forms there were 0 no-shows; it might be that info hasn't gone from the school to the council and been incorporated yet I guess.

It is reassuring avel that they finally got their act together today. I eventually gave up calling. I'll have to try tomorrow.

avel, there may be children who haven't turned up to school yet, but unless the family has informed the school that they won't be returning, the school has to make efforts to contact the family to check if they're dealing with absences or someone leaving before declaring that they have a place available.

I have heard of people being offered places in schools at half term. That was a combination of no shows and people finding that they suddenly (new job?) had to move.

We have gone down significantly on the waiting list. It seems everyone has opted to stay on the lists, and more have moved into the area.

The council said to expect to go down further as more of the backlog of applications is processed.

They apparently haven't heard from the schools yet whether there are any non-starters.

Are they still processing September 2015 reception applications? The council's previous line on the issue was that all in year applications ie. applications to get back on the cleared waiting list would be processed by 14th September. Then they go through the lists offering the no show places as they arise and they seem to be expecting a lot of those.

hibbledibble, everyone who put that particular one as a higher preference that the one that they were allocated should automatically be on the waiting list until the end of December.

That may be the case Christina, but then why have we all been told to redo the application forms? It all seems nuts.

The council talked of 'clearing' the lists on previous phone calls, saying that they believe lots of people are happy with a school which was not their original first choice.