Friend pushing her DD for 11+

[Hoppinggreen]

So my DD mght do the 11+ . She is working at a high level and her teachers say she should be able to do well.
However, DD has a friend called L. We are good friends with L's parents and socialise with them. L's mum is determined that her DD will also do the 11+ and asked if we couid share a tutor. I refused by saying that I had taken some advice a nd that the tutor we spoke to doesn't advise this ( this is technically true as the Tutor said that it probably wouldn't be in our DD's interest to share tuition unless the other child was at her level or above). We actually didn't use that Tutor as it turned out but decided to use a small group tutor instead. DD's mum has now enrolled her at the same place as DD.
All fine so far but I really dont think that L is going to get a a Grammar place.
Before everyone gets outraged this is the opinion of the Tutor, teachers and my DD who says L struggles and DD often helps her during the Tutoring.
In addition L is in the bottom group at school for both Maths and Literacy.
So why us this any of my business? Maybe it isn't but L is getting increasingly stressed about the exam and her mum is getting increasingly determined she is going to pass. She refuses to consider any other schools and tells L she will be going to the Grammar school with DD. To be honest WE don't even know that DD will go, she might not do well enough to get a place and we are also looking at other options.
So far I just smile and nod at my friend when she talks about how " our girls" will be going to The Grammar - should I just continue with that?
There is a mock exam coming up, I am considering suggesting she put L in for it ( with DD) so she can see for herself if L should continue to go for the 11+
For anyone who questions Tution in general we are doing it purely so DD is familiar with the exam but L's mum thinks it will somehow guarantee her a Grammar place.
I genuinely like both L and her Mum but can see them heading for a fall.

That's a good idea.

Agree, smile, nod and don't get involved. Just worry about your DD

My son is only in year 2 but all this tuition and competitiveness is barking and makes me feel insecure as a parent

Total misquote floggingmolly
L's mum has told me what the tutor has said and what group her DD is in at school.
My DD hasn't offered an opinion and I haven't discussed this with her. She has said that L struggles and that she often helps her.
I realise that this may be totally beyond the bounds of possibility for some but I am only concerned about the pressure this child is under and the fallout if she doesn't get a place. We are fully prepared for our DD not getting a place and have a plan B and C but this family doesn't. DD wants to do the 11+ and if she changes her mind we are ok with that but my friend is very determined her DD will

Id probably tell the mum that you and DD are looking at other schools too as the grammar mightn't be the right one even if she passes.

In my DS's year, all the children who got a grammar place were working two years ahead - so in year 2, they got level 3's. Non of the children with level 2a in year 3 got a place. However the threshold changes school to school and some grammars are relatively easy to get into compared to others.

2a in year 2 rather

It must be a really difficult situation to be in. The 11+ is a nightmare and really stressful, and friendships amongst parents can be tested. But as lots of people said, performance on the day can be surprising, kids at our school that were supposed to be doing well were put on the wait list for some independent or didn't even get an interview and another that was perceived a bit more average managed an academic scholarship. I can also see why the mock test is tempting, but I would try to steer away from it now.

It must be a really difficult situation to be in. The 11+ is a nightmare and really stressful, and friendships amongst parents can be tested. But as lots of people said, performance on the day can be surprising, kids at our school that were supposed to be doing well were put on the wait list for some independent or didn't even get an interview and another that was perceived a bit more average managed an academic scholarship. I can also see why the mock test is tempting, but I would try to steer away from it now.

I think the tutor needs to run some mid year tests and then be brutally honest and stop tutoring if there's no chance of scraping a pass

Don't think anybody should by Year 2 Sats,they're 3 and a half years before,a lot can happen in those years and kids mature at diff rates.

Oh and I'd be majorly pissed off if my dc's tutor was discussing my dc with other parents. I'm amazed any tutor would.

Lepetit, yes kids mature at different rates and late bloomers are common. However 7 kids got grammar school places in DS's year and all were level 3 in year 2. Non of the 2a kids got a place. I'm not sure about other kids/schools

My Ds did mocks throughout his tutoring. It's the norm

How the hell did you know who got a 3 or a 2a 4 years ago let alone now? I wouldn't want anybody knowing what my dc got,it's their business,nobody else's.

Sorry I had one 2a kid and 1 3 and it didn't make a jot of difference.

Tutoring in March for an exam in October is not simply getting a child familiar with the exam. Both you and your friend are tutoring for the exam. I don't have a problem with this as I believe tutoring will help, and the 11+ is not a level playing field, but before commenting on your friend, at least realise, like her, this is what you are doing.

As I said previously the Tutor hasn't told me anything, L's mum has.

So the tutor has said she won't be going but is still taking her money.

Mocks can be useful but I know a few that bombed on their mocks and got in. The point of mocks for many is to use them as a learning tool,highlight gaps not taught and improve.

I find the whole God given right by some parents on here as regards grammar places worrying.It puts many off who may well find their dc would pass and enjoy grammar. I remember one post on here by somebody who said only the kids in top sets from year 1 should apply and anybody not in said sets and without 3s at ks2 Sats were taking places from their more deserving children.It was hysterical.

If you saw the movement in groups( maths alone is a huge topic and covers all sorts of things a child may vary in as regards ability) and the huge difference in development coupled with the fact many grammars do standardised tests ie give points to younger children who may not be in the top set for everything at school because of age you'd see how silly this presumption is.

L's mums is doing the whole fingers in ears " la la la " I'm not listening thing to the tutor.
I don't think my DD has any " God given right" to a a Grammar place. As I KEEP saying we don't and can't know if she will get a place, which is why we are looking at other options. The concern for me is that despite the fact that L has been deemed to be struggling ( not by me) her mum will not consider any other schools as back up.
I think it comes down partly to the fact that they moved house last year and so are very unlikely to get into either of the 2 not bad Secondaries that most children from their school will go to.

I know what you are saying, OP, but I'd honestly smile and stay out of it.

My eldest sat secondary selective tests last september (slightly different format as in Herts), and I knew a few children who were heavily tutored for the test throughout Year 5 and also during the summer holidays who were, quite frankly, struggling at school. The parents were in pieces on the day of the results, and also the day of the offers.

As a friend, it was like watching a slow motion crash, but I just couldn't say anything.

Personally, I think the system here is crazy (no pass mark, you need over 95% for some schools), but I was shocked by the attitude of some of the parents. They told their children that School A was the only acceptable option, that they would not consider any other school. Now they have School D (not a bad school, btw) and are still breaking down in the playground.

When I say smile, I mean be neutral and polite. Or ask tell what your plan B is and ask hers?

11+ exams are the first or second Saturday in Sept round here i.e. as soon as the children get back after the summer holiday. We are now in the Easter holiday. So one term before 11+. Not exactly too long in advance to start preparing, especially as the children will be visiting grammars in the summer term to see if they want to apply.

Well you get the results of 11+ before secondary applications have to be in so you'll both find out in time to decide which schools to put on the application form, so she isn't really risking anything is she? Just giving her child a chance.

Exactly titchy.We were told in advance and also op you don't know how she is reassuring her child privately.

This is the epitome of none of your business I'm afraid. The only thing you should worry about is if you need a different tutor for DD if her friend is taking up too much of his attention in the sessions. I agree that 11+ is a lot to put a child through if they have no realistic chance but it really is the parents' decision not yours.

Doing a couple of tests is familiarising a child with the tests, Getting a tutor 6 months before a test is tutoring for a test.

My DS is Yr 5 in a (super selective) GS area - the tutoring started for many others in Yr 4. Lots of smug "well we don't really know but we believe x hopefully will get in " type comments. I am just SO grateful that my DS wont even take the 11+ for many reasons and so I can stay out of it. I would continue to discuss the alternative schools with your friend - you say she is out of catchment - what other choices does she have that you don't? Even people round here who clearly believe that their DC will get in to GS are looking at the alternatives.