All children in England will be expected to know up to their 12 times table when they leave primary school, the government has announced

[CandODad]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31079515

Am I the only one that doesn't see how this could be a good thing? All it would achieve is more schools being forced to academies and even then how would that ensure 100% attainment in the years to come?

Yes I think school should go back to having children recite tables as a regular exercise but to demand 100% seems unattainable? What if the school had children that were not capable of memorising data like that?

Basically, you can argue all you like about how it is totally unnecessary to learn times tables beyond the 10 times table, but I will still KNOW that the more number bonds and times tables I have learnt off by heart, the quicker my mental arithmetic will be, provided I also understand how numbers work, rather than parroting numbers that are meaningless to me.

And, personally, I find multiples of 12 seem to crop up quite often in my life, whether relating to the number of children at my dss' parties, or anything else. I also, admittedly, still favour feet and inches for peoples' height, inches for waist, hip and bust measurements, and have got quite handy at multiplying by 14 and 16 so that I can continue using lbs, ozs and stones in cooking and weighing...

If you are working in months and years then surely the 12 times table is unnecessary for the calculation. For seconds and minutes the 6 times is useful

Oh, pardon me, mrz. I should have said months OR years. You never can tell what that exam question will ask.

The chance of encountering a question on an exam paper requiring conversion of years to months is an excellent reason for learning the 12 times tables ...

Another ridiculous blanket policy to cure the UK's education woes ??

Yes, I found the way this was reported in the newspapers a bit odd too.

My yr6 DD can do all these things. And I think most kids are capable and should.

BUT, state schools are inclusive. There are children who certainly cannot. So saying a 100% must is nonsensical. Perhaps children with statements will be excluded? Would this then lead to a rush to statement more children that schools are concerned might not make it over the hurdle?

And how does giving a "failing" school more independence make any sense? A few years ago when academy status came out, only "outstanding" schools were welcomed. Now it is failing schools.

I can only surmise that the government thinks that LEAs are a malign influence holding schools back. So much for localism!

mrz - but it is, unfortunately. And as I say, I have genuinely found the more number facts I knew without having to work them out, the faster and more confident my mental arithmetic. I've found it very useful for working out peoples' share of the bill in restaurants, for working out, eg, how much 12 party bag widgets cost, for working out whether a bulk buy purchase is a good deal, etc, etc... and for helping people sitting at tills that have broken down work out how much change I am owed... So, whilst I strongly disagree with the government that 100% of children MUST know their 12 times tables by the age of 11, or a primary school must be failing dreadfully, I personally prefer my children to be taught and practise up to at least their 12 times tables. If they struggled with that, then I would concentrate on at least up to their 10 times tables, and if they struggled with that, then I would accept that they might run out of time in exams taken without calculators, which would dent their confidence, and that they would be more likely to be ripped off in situations where good mental arithmetic would be useful...

Is this not basic stuff, DS knew them all in P4, age 8.

That's what I though Fanny!

*thought

*thought

Whoops, sorry!

SEN aside, I would be horrified if children didn't know their times table long before leaving primary school. Im almost 57 now and we knew them by the time we were going into primary 5. We worked on them every day, and had to do them for homework as well. We also had to do mental arithmetic everyday and there's not a day goes by that I don't use it in my day to day life.

Don't worry - at least you didn't type peoples'...

Saw this today:

As we have repeatedly said, it's not the concept of primary age children learning their times tables that teachers have any difficulty accepting-indeed the current curriculum has an expectation that tables to 12x12 will be mastered by year 4. It is the blanket statement that ALL children will be expected to do so OR ELSE!! There are some children with SEN for whom this is as practical as expecting them to shoot the moon but apparently no exceptions are allowed.
How can we tailor our teaching to meet the needs of the children in our care if the Government assumes every child is the same!

You've got to give the Tory PR machine some credit. They've played an absolute blinder. Who knew it would be so easy to convince so many people that setting a bar as low as knowing your tables by 11 was an improvement by what went before.

Is this not basic stuff, DS knew them all in P4, age 8

Have you actually read the news article on this? Or any of the posts about it?

Nah, just the thread title.

rollonthesummer I've given up! Posters still keep up with the "my DC knew them at birth" type posts. They just don't get the actual issues here

Except that the fish climbing the tree quote was not Einstein.

There is nothing wrong with having high aspirations, bullying teachers who cannot reach unrealistic targets is pointless. Schools in challenging areas will find it impossible to attract and retain good teachers.

Believe or not, but many teachers are ambitious for children. Unfortunately factors like Sen or lack of parental support get in the way.

okay I can't help it, I'm proud of my DS. She's in Year 1 aged 5 and knows all her times table 1 to 12. So a little help from home does wonders. She loves being challenge and see it as a game. We are doing divisions now. I do appreciate if children have special needs and may find it difficult but if your child does not, then I really don't see why they cannot learn their timestable before they start secondary school. Surely we want the best for our children and working in conjunction with the school with their learning is a good thing.

Teeth thief- I bloody give up too.

Blossom-how wonderfully proud you must be.

Blossom once again....read what they are saying!!!! Many children DO know their times tables to 12 but if a school gets less than 100% of children NOT knowing them then the HT will be kicked out. How can anybody possibly think that's ok?

rollonethesummer It's so frustrating!!!

Blossom does you wee girl 'know them' or has she just memorised them the way she would memorise nursery rhymes.

I ask becuase there's a vast difference between the two.