Bringing back the old hymns?

[ontosecondary]

I'm part of a music team in a large state primary. We do Singup which is good but does feature a fair number of songs about apostrophes and sentiments such as "it's you, it's me, it's us that makes community".

We are not church school and I'm an atheist.

I feel that, in this day and age, we ought to be able to re-introduce some of the old hymns on the grounds that they are (i) great music and (ii) have lyrics that hint at life not always being rosy

I'm thinking of suggesting it to my colleagues. Ironically they are Christians and so it would need to come from me so as not to seem like a church-school-by-the-back-door thing.

Hymns I remember and miss include:
He who would valliant be
When a Knight won his spurs
All Things Bright and Beautiful
Give me joy in my heart keep me singing (etc)

Hymns I remember and would not foist on the innocent include:
There is a Green Hill Far Away
and anything else that's massively into the whole crucifixion details....

anyway, I wondered what people thought, and if you could nominate some hymns you wish you still heard. It's odd that we keep the Christmas Carols but not the rest of the year hymns.

cheers.

Theas18
What hymns do you suggest? Most of the John Westley Hymns were christian centric. Their job was to be rousing and encourage the faith. I don't think you can seperate christian evangelism (in the literal sense rather than religious sect) from amazing music.

exactly, they were written to glorify God.

we did used to sing folk songs at school like

cader idris?

lighthearted i stroll through the vale of Llangollen?

Leave her Johnny leave her

Ok maybe not john Wesley!

Let's see... Gets mental hymn book out.... DH does this all the time to fit a school of a " broadly Christian ethos " but with a large Muslim minority ( some of whom it's true do no music at all)

Sometimes it's a matter of lopping off verses/ changing the odd word though but then again the Anglican Church does that all the time lol.I note when we sang " o god our help in ages past" we don't ever seem to sing the " time like an ever rolling stream bears all our sons away" anymore
Examples include an arrangement if psalm 148 called " let all creation sing " by David Ogden new but fab. Psalm arrangements are often fine. There is another one " as the deer pants for the water" .

When I needed a neighbour

When a knight won his spurs

Loads of Noah based stuff, the wise man built his house upon the rock etc

Siahamba in Swahili and English ( we are marching in the light of God) . There is another one they did recently that was African too.

Strangely the fab one we did at school in the 1970s " the ink is black " doesn't seem to have made a comeback

"You just have to stick to Old Testament stuff away from trinitarian dictats, Jesus or Mary type things. "

funny, I would say the opposite! If you must go into meanings, Jesus' teachings are "mainly ok" whereas the Old Testament seems pretty hate-filled.

But I think the ideal solution is lots of mystery:

"To this day, I still don't know what those two Italian ladies were singing about. Truth is, I don't want to know. Some things are better unsaid"

(As the great man said)

Singing daily hymns was the highlight of my primary school years, when I hear them it brings back happy memories. I think it would be lovely to hear them in schools again.

Praise my soul, king of heaven should be OK

my soul the king of heaven

The problem with old hymns is that they don't always appeal to younger children. My son sings lots of the hymns in a church choir. I have mixed feelings about forcing children to sing hymns as part of "sing up". It almost demeans the hymns which are designed to be something far bigger than "sing up".

"Strangely the fab one we did at school in the 1970s " the ink is black " doesn't seem to have made a comeback"

I sang that one and it was pure cheese. There were no black kids in my infants school.

"It almost demeans the hymns which are designed to be something far bigger than "sing up"."

well tough. The Church isn't in charge any more and its music belongs to us all as music.

i agree really tired, some of the hymns are reflective and are written to worship and praise God.

i like as the Deer pants

also Graham Kendrick

as one shall tell another

has a real knees up feel

Again, tough. These hymns are too good to be kept for the Christians, I'm nicking them, and I'm keeping all the original words.

If you choose to take them literally or link them to your own faith, that's great too. But I don't need to.

It's great you want to use them but obviously they do have meaning.

Yes, that's right. I have a right to use them. You treat these things with more respect by keeping the original words than by creating censored versions.

Similarly, I will teach "You'll never walk alone" without either supporting Liverpool, demanding that the children support Liverpool or secretly wondering whether I ought to support Liverpool beyond a brief "I wish I was actually there" moment.

also you lose meaning by censorship.

"Simple Gifts," the old Quaker version, not the reworked Lord of the Dance version from the 1960s.

It's a very catchy tune with very humble, thoughtful words.

Dear lord and father of mankind
Guide me, Oh thou great Jehovah
Harvest hymns
Make me a channel of thy peace
Bind us together, lord
Give me love in my heart, keep my praising

And we used to sing a great hymn called Sound the Battle Cry at primary, which I loved - sound the battle cry, see the foe is nigh, raise the standard high for The Lord! Gird your armour on, stand firm, everyone, he is the captain of the mighty throng - anyone else know it?!

What about 'When I needed a neighbour , were you there,were you there?
Kum ba yah
My kids love singing hymns at school, especially action songs.

I teach music in a large multicultural school. I am not allowed to teach any sons with religious content. I have been slowly allowing references to The Christmas story to sneak in and I teach individual classes songs from other religions, linked to their festivals. But as a whole school, we sing non religious songs.
We don't use sing up (though we are a gold school) as I can source better music more cheaply. I love hymns and would love to teach them, but I can't. I use some out of the ark ones (the egg burger, cheese burger one is from Lunchtime Queue- kids love it!) but not the god-ly ones. I also teach pop music if it has a good message. We've done Wavin' Flag, Sing, Make your own kind of music and, for our final assembly before the summer holiday, The Best Day of my Life. It is possible to teach good music without hymns, but I agree, there are some cracking tunes out there!

Ontosecondary, I'm glad you are keeping the words and the songs.
There is power in many of the words, well beyond being enjoyable tunes. And I like to think of you sharing that power with the children, even when you see no meaning in them yourself.

I think small children enjoy singing. They like a good tune and enjoy the hymns which are rousing and easy to sing and also secular songs too. By secondary though, children seem to find singing a big embarrassment and I think many adults do too. Of course, people can manage to sing a football song if it gives a rousing community feeling.

"I like to think of you sharing that power with the children, even when you see no meaning in them yourself."

:)

I would call 'Give me joy in my heart' fairly modern TBH! Not a favourite, although I do have modern hymns that are. Here are my nominations for great old hymns:

Old 100th / All Creatures That on Earth do Dwell
Dear Lord & Father of Mankind
My Song is Love Unknown
When I Survey the Wondrous Cross

There are loads more that I can't think of at the moment. Some of these are a bit crucifixiony but are still awesome.

Wow, what a thread!

This is, strangely, a subject that I have been thinking about recently, as I am currently trying to get my head round primary provision in my area and I would really have liked my DC to have that "hymn in assembly" experience. I feel I got a lot out of it as a child, mostly because the hymns were so emotional, usually very profound and often sad. I think they allowed me to begin to understand empathy, sacrifice and, yes, sorrow.

Our hymn book was "Hymns: ancient and modern, revised." We sang a huge range from that book, but I second Eugenes with My Song is Love Unknown as my all-time favourite, with In the Bleak MidWinter, by Christina Rossetti coming close second.

I'm a card-carrying member of the BHA and a staunch atheist, but love all the old hymns (we also had Hymns, Ancient & Modern, Revised). We had chapel every morning at my prep school and despite not believing most of what we were singing I have fond memories.

I am definitely not a fan of the ghastly 'Shine, Jesus, Shine' variety or anything modern and evangelical, and wouldn't be too happy if DD was being made to sign those, but the good old-fashioned CofE numbers would be fine. Weird bias I know, but there we are, I suppose I consider the latter to be culturally important in the same way that Shakespeare is and your average Mills & Boons is not.

My husband's family are always amused at weddings and carol concerts when I'm the only one that knows all the words and tunes.

Even as a child I was a bit of a traditionalist so when my junior school's new music teacher decided to introduce the modern version of "Oh Jesus I Have Promised" I was not impressed. She only compounded her sins when the guitar and amp made an appearance.

"I feel I got a lot out of it as a child, mostly because the hymns were so emotional, usually very profound and often sad. I think they allowed me to begin to understand empathy, sacrifice and, yes, sorrow."

Thank you for that. I feel that too. So much to think about.