Bringing back the old hymns?

[ontosecondary]

I'm part of a music team in a large state primary. We do Singup which is good but does feature a fair number of songs about apostrophes and sentiments such as "it's you, it's me, it's us that makes community".

We are not church school and I'm an atheist.

I feel that, in this day and age, we ought to be able to re-introduce some of the old hymns on the grounds that they are (i) great music and (ii) have lyrics that hint at life not always being rosy

I'm thinking of suggesting it to my colleagues. Ironically they are Christians and so it would need to come from me so as not to seem like a church-school-by-the-back-door thing.

Hymns I remember and miss include:
He who would valliant be
When a Knight won his spurs
All Things Bright and Beautiful
Give me joy in my heart keep me singing (etc)

Hymns I remember and would not foist on the innocent include:
There is a Green Hill Far Away
and anything else that's massively into the whole crucifixion details....

anyway, I wondered what people thought, and if you could nominate some hymns you wish you still heard. It's odd that we keep the Christmas Carols but not the rest of the year hymns.

cheers.

Blimey, now I know I must be getting on - since when did the 'butterfly song' count as an 'old hymn'?

Some of the proper old hymns are worth teaching kids to belt out - they were written to be singable. My mother kept a copy of the 'Congregational Praise' I grew up with when the church 'modernised' (to her sorrow) - I've got it in my desk drawer.

I'd happily have 'All things bright and beautiful' if juxtaposed (as Anne Fine does in one of her anthologies) Eric Idle's 'All things dull and ugly' - which my DD proved was just as singable when she came across it, and made her think a bit more than the rather banal one-sidedness of the original.

You might have to be a bit careful - since schools aren't supposed to teach ID, 'Who put the colours in the rainbow' ... 'it surely cant be chance' perhaps isn't a message to be uncritically presented in a cute song. (it's not one of the old greats anyway). I was rather to hear that one at DD's class assembly one year.

The one I remember loving at school which I'd not come across at sunday school/church was 'Glad that I live am I' - which isn't specifically religious and has a lovely tune.

"That's the thing. I am an atheist and I am coming to steal your tunes."

They're not "owned" by anyone. They've been sung for generations, often from habit/socially rather than as worship. Many are easy to sing, and some have lovely words (do go for th version of "Pilgrim" with the hobgoblins and foul fiend, won't you?)

There was a thread here in the last few days about a bride wondering if it would be OK to send info in her chosen hymns to guests so they could practice. If you want to fill a church with joyful noise, it really helps if there is a stock of commonly known songs.

And, at the end of the day, even though people sometimes struggle to sing at funerals, it's even more miserable when the congregation struggles with unfamiliarity too. (I associate "All things bright and beautiful" very strongly with funerals).

I wanted to have Abide With Me at our wedding, as it's a hymn I love to sing but was informed by the vicar that it was too depressing and more suited to funerals (despite the fact that Queen Victoria had it at HER wedding .

He was the same vicar who refused to allow us to have Jerusalem at our wedding. This was because of its negative connotations, apparently (the answers to all the questions posed in the song are "no"). Miserable bugger he was!

Squirrelkiller that video makes me feel about ten :) Some of those songs never leave you.

Angua - oh, if you want to fill a church with noise, just invite my family... my mother carefully chose the hymns for her funeral, sung lustily by all at the church. But then for the commital at the crem, she'd chosen an unusual hymn with a specific tune she'd actually written down because it wasn't in the hymn book... DB (who is an organist) played it through once, we waded in and after a couple of verses we'd nailed it. Yes, even from beyond the grave she'd taught the whole family a forgotten old hymn tune!

Oh I love I the Lord of Sea and Sky . We had that at DD2's christening. I'm mostly atheist myself but I do love a good hymn!

Love this thread. Does anyone else remember a rather syrupy affair titled "Tell me the stories of Jesus"? We had a very elderly school pianist in the Infants who loved a good bit of 1950s hymnal schmaltz....

OP, most of the hymns above are sung in Catholic churches too, in fact there's only a few there I don't know and I went to Catholic school and have never attended any other church (not sure that's entirely relevant but you said about catholic hymns)

Anyway, my favourites are:

Oh the Word of my Lord
Christ be Beside Me
Shine Jesus, Shine
Be still for the presence of the Lord
Bind us Together Lord
For Those in Peril on the Sea (although that might be a bit too old and dreary for primary)
As I Kneel Before You/Ave Maria
Lord of the Dance
Our God Reigns

and my absolute favourite, I Watch The Sunrise.

Squirrel, I think "cherubim and seraphim" is from Holy Holy Holy.

Long time music co-ordinator, staunch atheist and taker of "Hymn Practise" or "Singing Assembly" as we now call it (although one RE co-ordinator a few years ago insisted we call it "Choral Praise" [snigger]) every week for the last 25 years but the problem with the old fashioned hymns is that you need a pianist.

The "Out of the Ark" type assembly song books (if you do indeed still sing in assembly which some schools sadly don't) all come with a lovely disc and words to be projected.

"Come and Praise" books and the traditional hymns don't, so rely on a pianist.

When I first started at my current school there were no less than 5 pianists who could clatter their way through most assembly songs on our rusty old Daneman piano.

Now I am the only one left. In a large primary school I visited today on a course, out of an entire staff of 25 teachers, not a single one of them could play the piano. The music co-ordinator couldn't play any instruments or even read music!

But for the record here's a few I love:

All night all day
When a night won his spurs
Who put the colours in the rainbow?
Cauliflowers fluffy
Rise and Shine (the arky ark song)
Here I am Lord
I watch the Sunrise
The Lord of the dance
There are hundreds and thousands, millions of sparrows
One more Step along the world I go.
Colours of day
The ink is black the page is white
Every word comes alive
The Family of man
Autumn Days (which I taught just yesterday! Oh and I let them shout the bit when they get to "win for my home team" ! )

stillsquirrelling

Yes, it's from Holy Holy Holy:

the 2nd verse:

"Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore thee,
casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
cherubim and seraphim falling down before thee,
which wert, and art, and evermore shalt be"

I especially liked the sound of 'which, wert and art' when I sang them too :)

I had quite a deprived childhood and I remember luxuriating in the beautiful words in these hymns. So many of them and every day in assembly. I loved singing (didn't get much other chance to express myself) and the music (my only contact with) and it meant so much to me to have these amazing words cascading around me.

I don't suppose the teachers ever realised but it was so important for me and I missed it terribly at High School.

My children come home singing: 'One More Step Along the World I Go' and I well up and have to turn away / quickly hug them.

I am an atheist too but am so pleased my grandson attends a school where he sings hymns. Part of our tradition and good tunes.
I have been known to listen to ''Songs of Praise'' on TV. Sometimes its glorious music.

oh jesus i have promised - sung to the upbeat tune not dreary dirge

Love Divine all love excelling

oh lord love and creator?

forgive our foolish ways - so moving

sing hosannah

lord jesus christ you have come to us
living lord

in junior school we made up a notebook with choruses. many about biblical characters long time ago

Fisherman Peter
David the shepherd boy
jonah and the city of nineveh
20th century thanksgiving

never sung them again

I'm an atheist and find myself agreeing. It may just be nostalgia speaking... but there was something uplifting about those hymns sung during primary school. They don't have to call them hymns now, they could just call them songs from the olden days and ensure that a variety of other songs are being sung too.

My DD has just gone from a state primary to an independent secondary school and she now has to go to chapel for assembly once a week. She loves chapel! It's all to do with the hymns that they sing and nothing to do with the message the Reverend is trying to convey.

Oh, alemci, either of the proper traditional tunes to OJIHP are much better than the 'modern' staccatto thing, neither is dirge-like if sung properly... don't say there's yet another I don't know? >

planet - yes, fond memories of 'Tell me the stories of Jesus'. That one isn't '1950s schmaltz' though, as the chap who wrote it lived 1845-1929 (yes, I just checked in my Congregational Praise, I was sure it was properly traditional. IME anything after WWII is modern)

OK, I'd better leave this thread and get down to some work - I've just whistled 'dear lord and father of mankind' and started in on 'Love divine all loves excelling'.... fortunately I work from home and the dog doesn't think this is at all eccentric.

Baby is still baking at the moment but I hope they're still singing hymns when they're old enough to start school. Especially as they already jump about when we sing certain hymns at church.

Love Divine is one of my favourites as well.

Erroll i know 3. the modern one with the high bit at the end of verse which i like.

one which has a bit which sounds a bit like roll up roll up piano bit which was dire and that the traditional one.

modern one hated by our headmistress so 6th formers lead assembly and someone played a guitar. a bit rebellious in a school stuck in 50s in the 80s

like at the name of Jesus too which is so familiar.

StillSquirelling the one about walls tumbling down is Joshua Fought the Battle of Jericho. It was in a medley of songs on the last night of the proms this year. Catholic DH looked at me as though I was mad when I could sing along.

I just loved When Your Father Made The World, which I think is the WWF (nature, not wrestling) hymn and was in the green book. When each tiny sparrow dies, a fragile lily grows weeps

We had If I was a Butterfly at my great aunt's funeral. She was profoundly deaf and every time they sang it in church her pew would shake at the fuzzy wuzzy bear/hair bit. She thought it was hilarious

Oh and The Ink is Black - yes!

Thanks plop.x

Turns out the book at school is Junior Praise. The rot had obviously set in as some beautiful mysterious words have been changed to trite bland words.

How old an edition do I need to avoid bowdlerisation do you think?

"When I neede a neighbour" probably set up my values for life.

I did grade 5 piano when I was 16. Do you think I could get. That authentic school assembly sound with work? The old Kemble is in the hall....

I have just been subjected to "punctuation jive". A song that reminds you about there being two kinds of music....

By the way, am really appreciating all the nominations from fellow atheists.

Onwards Christian Soldiers does, unfortunately, have to go in the "no" pile methinks.

references to sinners, unbelievers, etc are however rather rare.

There may not be too many direct references to sinners, but a lot of the good old hymns are (unsurprisingly) explicitly about salvation and the Saviour. Eg that 'syrupy' 'Tell me the stories of Jesus' ends with 'show me the scene in the garden, of bitter pain, and of the cross where my saviour, for me was slain'. Many are really incomprehensible without the concept of being sinners.