is my DS bright or normal? Not a stealth boast

[doineedhelp]

So, i have 1 child, DS 3.5 years old. Everyone is always telling me how bright he is and that i need to make sure he goes to a good school or else he will get bored and fall behind etc, but as he is my 1 and only i have no idea if he is bright or a normal 3.5 year old.

He is obssesed with numbers and could count to 10 by 19months, he can currently count to over 100. Likewise he knows all of his alphabet, colours, shapes, can spell quite a few words on his own, is beginning to write letters and numbers and can do simple subtraction and addition using fingers etc.

So, is this normal or is he gifted as people keep telling me. I'm worried that if he is very bright then boredom at school will lead to bad behaviour eventually - why is there always something to worry about?

Any advice welcomed,

TheGoop - that's 'normal' too. There is a HUGE range of 'normal' in that age group. Also, kids 'take off' at different stages, some 'take off' early and some have a 'spurt' later on. By the time they're upper primary there's much less variation, with a few 'struggling' and a few truely 'gifted' Just let him be a child and enjoy it! :)

doineedhelp - as pretty much everyone else has said, he's the 'bright' end of 'normal', there are plenty of others doing that too, as well as the children who aren't speaking much or counting beyond ten and those inbetween. If he wants to do more then great, go for it while he's interested. I would sort out which school you are hoping to get him in and ask them what methods they use, it's just easier if you do it the same. But really, unless he's asking for specific things I'd focus on the things he's not so good at and give him more opportunities to improve on those things - if anything (ie things that help with his muscle tone/balance etc) . I'm all for pre-schoolers being allowed to be just that. Pre school.

Cheerful yank that made me laugh. We get a lot of animal noises too! Love monkey impressions the best. Oo oo ah ah.

That sounds like DS1 at that age but he started school having just had his 4th birthday rather than being oldest in year. He is now at secondary school where he is top set but not top of the top set. He is definitely caught up, so I consider him bright not gifted.

yes mandyandme i think thats it, he couldn't crawl, sit, walk etc so we spent lots of time doing the things he could do like reading, singing nursery rhymes etc we still have to sing 10 green bottles at least 5 times a day

I'm guessing they all catch up before junior school, at least i'm hoping physically that he will catch up

When you say he can count to 100 do you mean he can recite the numbers in order to 100 or can he accurately count 100 objects or actions? Reciting is very normal whereas actually being able to count accurately is a very different thing.

mrz he can count objects etc and completely understands the order, i.e. he knows 26 is 26 and 62 is 62 and that 62 is bigger than 26 if that makes sense
With spelling he is always asking me how things are spelt or what letter does something begin with, he just seems eager to know as much as he can

My DD was like this she then developed other skills between 3.5 years and 4.5years (mainly negotiating) and didn't read till she was in reception. She then travelled along at a nice rate, but nothing exceptional till year 3.
Year 3 she then started to reveal her true colours and at the end of year 5 her teachers feel she is not yet working at her full capacity. They get glimmers of more ability every so often.
Education is a long game hopefully she will peak for GCSEs and A-Level.

If he can accurately & consistently count 100 objects then he is more able than most children his age It is common for children to recite numbers to 100 and beyond and to order numbers, show interest in words and letters within normal spread of ability in any early years setting IMHE.

My DS was about the same, including hypermobility and low muscle tone. He is gifted, top set of top set of super selective grammar.

The thing that made him stand out at that age was his way of thinking and the questions he asked. The way adults would be pondering a problem and he would instantly have the solution. I think this is a better indication than the ability to rote learn.

I must be very lucky because I never had a problem with schools allowing him to be bored.

I wouldn't worry about your DS in advance beside getting the best school you can, which I would do anyway.

He sounds quite like one of mine - he is 6 now and academically very bright. Eventually (and it took me a while to work this out) we opted for a less academic school than we might have - one that does lots of sport, music, drama and art as part of the curriculum. I think he is benefitting more from this than he would have from having the academic side of his development pushed further (he needs no encouragement to spend all of his free time doing maths!), and he is certainly very happy - when the focus gets too academic he starts to worry (because he is bright enough to understand what he still can't do if that makes sense). riversidemum's advice is good.

FWIW I also have a son the same age as yours, who cannot do any of the things you list (and can only recently reliably count to 10) . And I still (obviously) think that he is fairly bright!

"friends dd taught herself to read using friends naughty chick lit novels at the age of 2" Seriously!? Taught herself to read at 2?

I was reading at 4 and a half and everyone thought that was early (My sister taught me) but teaching yourself at 2 - how is that even possible?

TheGoop Welcome to mumsnet.

JustRichmal - what are you on about? Why are you insinuating that TheGoop is a troll?

I think she's insinuating that mumsnet is full of parents who like to boast about their advanced children!

I am not offended, I find it incredible too.

I have been here since 2007 but change my name regularly since my posts were sent to a family member by someone on here.

i'd beg to differ from most - being bright at primary can lead to boredom as it's so this, now this, now the next skill, now etc (dictated) in some schools that bright kids don't get a look in in terms of real learning and extension.

also get ready for them downgrading his levels every year despite it being totally clear he's way above what they're saying so they can hang on to the value added for later years in case his progress slows down.

obviously i didn't have a great experience and many schools would be different but yes, it matters what kind of school. this was the only school we could get to and overall had a good reputation but on close reading ofsted had been warning them for a couple of inspections in a row that they weren't extending able children and weren't on top of student ability data and planning according to it. shortly before i took him out of the school they finally failed ofsted (i think mostly due to the complacency culture that had failed to act on advice two inspections in a row and a laziness based on a good socio-economic intake of students that allowed for sitting on laurels overall results wise).

don't assume the school with the best overall results is the best or the one with the naicest children - the opposite is seeming to be true around here in many ways as the schools with more challenging intake become far more creative and great at differentiation and ensuring no child's needs are left unmet.

i DID have a great experience with my own primary however who allowed me to shoot along at my own pace and never get bored and never felt the need to make me do what everyone else was doing. i was encouraged and fostered and was way ahead when i started secondary. sadly secondary school was where they were unable to deal with it and i sat on my laurels, became very bored and eventually hardly bothered to go. i came out with good grades but presumably nothing compared to what i could have gotten if that kind of fostering had continued.

whoever said education is a long game is right imo. just keep an eye on things and be ready to add in extra curricular stuff that is challenging in different areas or is an extension on an area of particular interest if needed.

I was a primary Teaching Assistant and also parent helper for over twenty years.

Ability is often influenced by a child's environment and parenting, so the more you talk to him, share books etc, the more progress he should make.

Reading and Spelling:
If you look in the MN Book Reviews, "Children's educational books and courses" section, you should see the Oxford Phonics Spelling Dictionary. There is a link from there to view sample pages from it. That book will clarify for you how Phonics is taught, and it is probably suitable for DS to use, more-or-less on his own.

Numeracy:
I'll add my standard advice for number skills -

?QUOTE:

Practical things are best for grasping number concepts - bricks, Lego, beads, counters, money, shapes, weights, measuring, cooking.

Do adding, taking away, multiplication (repeated addition), division (sharing), using REAL OBJECTS as just 'numbers' can be too abstract for some children.

Number Bonds of Ten forms the basis of much maths work, so try to learn them. Using Lego or something similar, use a LOT of bricks (of just TWO colours, if you have enough) lay them out so the pattern can be seen of one colour INCREASING while the other colour DECREASES. Lay them down, or build up like steps.

So:

ten of one colour none of other
nine of one colour one of other
eight of one colour two of other
seven of one colour three of other

etc, etc

then of course, the sides are equal at 5 and 5; after which the colours 'swap over' as to increasing/decreasing.

To learn TABLES, do them in groups that have a relationship, thus:

x2, x4, x8

x3, x6, x12

5 and 10 are easy

7 and 9 are rather harder.

Starting with TWO times TABLE, I always say: "Imagine the class is lining up in pairs; each child will have a partner, if there is an EVEN number in the class. If one child is left without a partner, then the number is ODD, because an odd one is left out."

Use Lego bricks again, lay them out in a column of 2 wide to learn 2x table. Go half way down the column, and move half the bricks up, so that now the column is 4 bricks wide. That gives the start of 4x table.

Then do similar things with 3x and 6x.

With 5x, try and count in 'fives', and notice the relationship with 'ten' - they will alternate, ending in 5 then 10.

It is important to try and UNDERSTAND the relationships between numbers, and not just learn them 'by rote'.

I am sorry it seems complicated trying to explain these concepts, but using Lego or counters should make understanding easier.

An inexpensive solar powered calculator (no battery to run out!) can help learn tables by 'repeated addition'. So: enter 2+2 and press = to give 4. KEEP PRESSING = and it should add on 2 each time, giving 2 times table.

There are good web sites, which can be fun to use :

www.ictgames.com/

www.resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/index.html

UNQUOTE

At 3.5 he could also be learning to play keyboard; music and academic ability often go together. (Our DS started at 2yrs) Another MN parent is getting this keyboard for their 3yr old, around £85 on Amazon I think. (Shop around for the best deal though, and if you buy from a store get them to include power adaptor, headphones, and free stand if you can; don't be afraid to haggle!)

uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalkeyboards/portable_keyboards/ypt-220/?mode=model

DD has mild cerebral palsy which meant she didn't walk until 2y2m. She also developed mentally rather than physically to begin with - read at 2 (yes, really!), was writing simple sentences before she went to school, able to count a long way and do calculations such as 'if I have 3 cats, how many paws will there be?'etc.

She started school last year and has loved it. She was reading fluently and so they focussed on phonics for spelling for her. She did some work with the year above for a while, but a couple of her friends and peers have begun to catch up with her, so now is back with her own age group. She is still considered bright, but she's not freakishly bright...

You need to visit schools over the next couple of months, preferably with your DS and see how they react to him, and the sort of stuff going on in the reception class. DON'T tell them he is bright, just ask how they work with children at either end of the ability spectrum. I much preferred the less 'academic' school and went for one in which they teach each child as an individual as far as they can.

I think your worries are premature.

As you can always change schools if required.

Just see how it goes and sit back and relax.

My youngest DS is/was very bright, at Playgroup they said he would "fly" at school, and he did. He did get bored in Y2, but never misbehaved. I don't think bored bright kids automatically misbehave! That is a myth.

We moved him to private school in y3. Well, that is a mixed blessing.

They actually put too much pressure on him, and it has led to stress, completely unnecessary IMO.

Also, he was "gifted" and "genius level" at age 5/6, but now he is 9, a lot of his peers have caught up or even overtaken him. That is normal.

So don't worry, just do whatever you think is best for him at the time. The thing with kids is that the goalposts are moving ally he time, and you have to keep an open mind and be flexible and enjoy your kid for who he is!

Your DS definitely sounds high-percentile bright to me. I second another posters comment, play-based learning may actually be more challenging for him; from my own experience I could read and do basic maths when I started school and I hated having to then go effectively backwards and learn phonics, counting, etc. perhaps look at some additional academic stimulation such as Kumon to keep his interest and if you have options try to choose a school with a strong academic culture, this may help him stay stimulated. It isn't something to worry about, btw, the fact that you are aware and supportive will make all the difference to how he embraces his academic abilities.

Igno yes the monkey is a good one! We get a lot of "mmoww, mmoww, diggie!" as well. Her main words are diggie and doggie, which of course mean kitty and dog in 15 month language. :)

Ferguson that is interesting! I told DS that "times" meant "groups of" and he can do that for small numbers as he can visualize what two groups of four, etc, look like. And it makes sense to him that things times 0 are 0, because they are zero groups. I like the idea of the increasing and decreasing numbers with Lego. When I was young there was none of that but when I worked at school a few years back they were working with ten frames and it really made sense.

Goop I could read before three. I'm no genius but letters and their sounds have always made sense to me. My mother was working with my older brother on letter sounds and it just started to fall together for me. Also we were read to a lot and the radio was on a lot (no TV, we were skint :o ) and I have a good memory for things I hear. So if I came across a word I'd never seen printed before, it would make sense because I'd heard it before and would know how to say it and what it meant.

see when i was at school (and this is probably very old fashioned now as ds's school was obsessed with everything being done on fingers or in the head) we had little wooden blocks and headers of units, tens and hundreds and different size wooden bits. it led beautifully into adding up in columns in the conventional sense and gave me a very clear mental picture to build my mental arithmetic upon. the lego thing sounds a bit like going back to that.

with multiplication with my son it is multiple adding that i guess i lean on re: 3x4 is 4 + 4 + 4. whatever though the reality is that different tacks work for different people. if you asked any one of us here to answer what is 17 x 84 and we all got the right answer (in our heads) and then you asked us how we worked it out there would be many different methods that made perfect sense to those who used them and seemed illogical or long-handed to those who used other methods.

my personal feeling with primary education (and maybe all education with the whole NC and increasingly prescriptive levels of gov interference) is that it is all one size fits all macdonalds manual of teaching-ish. we all learn differently and actually trying to force someone to follow a method that doesn't fit them or holding them back to prove they can do it your way when actually they can already do it fine and 'get' it but by their own method is disruptive to their learning.

we also seem to think these days that learning is all about teaching methods and forget that the learner is a massive factor and brings a lot to the table themselves. lots of buzz word stuff about pupil led learning and differentiation but the structure and system itself seems to work against it in reality.

just keep being chatty, interested and engaged at home. that's what really counts. or consider home educating him.

cheerfulyank - i had the opposite thing where i read words happily and understood them but had never heard them (read pretty heavy stuff fairly young) so later in childhood/adolescence would embarrass myself by saying them out loud and it turning out they were pronounced differently than i'd 'heard' them in my head when reading them

Ferguson thank you! that's very helpful info

Bright but don't worry any decent school and he will flourish.

My dd is bright, it's not something I ever mention in case people think I'm boasting but she loves school and has lots of friends etc. she was a free reader before christmas in reception which is ridiculous. just relax and let him develop at his own rate.